What purpose did the MTO serve?

[Babalonian]

I got into an argument with some guy on another forum about what purpose it served. He says that the russians would have won WW2 without any help from the US. I told him he was full of horse dung. I told him that Russia didnt participate in the PTO until the very end and didnt participate in the MTO at all. He remains staunch that the MTO didnt accomplish anything. So what did the MTO do?

Germany's advances had been largely unopposed until they took a real long geographic leap into North Africa while at the same time the Allies (America finally entered the war) swung into offencive gear by cutting off the Axis advance in Africa, literally.  At the same time, winter was not favoring their advances in Russia either.  Japan and Russia effectively had a cease fire for most the entire war until after the fall of Berlin - Half the war Germany was bargaining heavily with Tojo to put some pressure on Russia offensively, the other half the Allies were bargaining heavily with Stalin to put some pressure on Japan through that front offensively.  Russia had no intention of picking another fight with Japan until they were sure they wouldn't get their chops handed to them again, but be assured they were eager for a reckoning with them for the last ~30 years of defeat against them.  Japan never saw Russia as a threat, or rather during the brief span of WWII saw them as one, and had other priorities, lucrative prospects, and daunting adversaries with whom they perceived having some score against to settle (or towards the later years, visa verse).

[Widewing]

Germany's advances had been largely unopposed until they took a real long geographic leap into North Africa while at the same time the Allies (America finally entered the war) swung into offencive gear by cutting off the Axis advance in Africa, literally.  At the same time, winter was not favoring their advances in Russia either.  Japan and Russia effectively had a cease fire for most the entire war until after the fall of Berlin - Half the war Germany was bargaining heavily with Tojo to put some pressure on Russia offensively, the other half the Allies were bargaining heavily with Stalin to put some pressure on Japan through that front offensively.  Russia had no intention of picking another fight with Japan until they were sure they wouldn't get their chops handed to them again, but be assured they were eager for a reckoning with them for the last ~30 years of defeat against them.  Japan never saw Russia as a threat, or rather during the brief span of WWII saw them as one, and had other priorities, lucrative prospects, and daunting adversaries with whom they perceived having some score against to settle (or towards the later years, visa verse).

Japan had 1.2 million men in Manchuria, on or near the Soviet border. It sounds to me that Japan was very concerned with the Soviets as a threat, especially considering their being handled rather roughly by the Soviets in the Khalkhyn Gol fights of May, 1939. After Stalin's spy network assured him that Japan had no ambitions along the Soviet border, he transferred many units west to deal with the Germans. Japan never really had what the west would consider a "continental" army, having relatively poor artillery and a general lack of motorized transport.

[Rino]

     Isn't the MTO kinda close to those Middle East oil fields?  I wonder what would have happened if Rommel's guys
hadn't been considered a backwater by GHQ.

[MiloMorai]

Not only aircraft were shipped to the Soviet Union, they also received thousands of tanks, tens of thousands of trucks, ammunition and hundreds of tons of other supplies. Without all of that materiel, the USSR very well might have folded.

tonnaged shipped to the Soviets

Year Totals

Persian Gulf - Pacific - Atlantic - Black Sea - Arctic > total
1941-- 360,778 - 13,502 - 193,299 - 153,977 > 721,556 > ~2.4%
1942--2,453,097 - 705,259 - 734,020 - 949,711 - 64,107 > 4,906,194 > ~16.1% >> 18.5% of total shipped
1943--4,794,545 - 1,606,979 - 2,388,577 - 681,043 - 117,946 > 9,589,090 > ~31.5% >> 50% of total shipped
1944--6,217,622 - 1,788,864 - 2,848,181 - 1,452,775 - 127,802 > 12,435,245 > ~40.8% >> 90.8% of total shipped
1945--3,673,819 - 44,513 - 2,079,320 - 726,725 - 680,723 > 2,804,556 > 9.2% >> 100% of total shipped

[guncrasher]

Not only aircraft were shipped to the Soviet Union, they also received thousands of tanks, tens of thousands of trucks, ammunition and hundreds of tons of other supplies. Without all of that materiel, the USSR very well might have folded.

dont think so, while the supplies were very welcome and needed, the russians would have eventually driven the germans out.  all based in numbers, the russians had more and they were willing to sacrifice as many of them as were needed.  how ruthless were the russians at sacrificing their own people?  well they shot most russian pow that got liberated as traitors for not keep fighting till they died.  they killed their own soldiers if they retreated, the killed their families or they were sent to siberia.  they executed officers and sent their families to siberia for retreating.  I believe the russians killed a good portion of the 25 million they lost in the war.

russia was not like the rest of european countries that after being conquered mostly cooperated with the germans.  there were many patriotic europeans who joined the Resistance but there were just as many who joined/cooperated with the germans.  and I am saying russia was not like them only because of the german thinking that russian were just animals.  hitler's  plans were always to annihilate the population of Stalingrad, leningrad and moscow so as Hitler put it "we wont have to feed them".

anyway germans didnt even have winter clothes as the first winter arrived.  they had a great plan for capturing russia but they were ill prepared for a long war with their resupply lines long and slow.  even their tanks were no match for the russian terrain and wheather.

we can go back and forth about couldda, shouldda, wouldda, but nobody really gonna know this one.  except one thing is for sure, russia would have sent their last soldier to die if needed.


semp

[RTHolmes]

... Roosevelt to agree to opening a front in Africa ...

   the allies had been fighting in n africa for over a year before the US even entered the war, and 2 years before the first US forces landed in tunisia, by which time the axis were already beaten and on the run.