Author Topic: Historical Research Help Needed  (Read 351 times)

Offline Vermillion

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4012
Historical Research Help Needed
« on: April 10, 2000, 09:12:00 AM »
Ok guys, I need a little bit of help with some historical research, that will most likely be applied to something you guys would enjoy very much (hint hint).  

I need to find some historical units names (emblems would be nice too if you have access to them).

Here is what I need.

1.) A Spitfire or Hurricane Unit assigned to Malta, Spring 1943

2.)US, British or Canadian Squadrons flying Spitfires in North Africa in early 1943. I found a reference to the US 52nd Fighter group in Spits (V's-IX's), but need confirmation, and or squadron name/number (Need something like 8-10 units total if possible).

3.) Any Unit flying Beaufighters or Hurricane ground attack variants, North Africa early 1943.

4.) US B-26 Units with the 9th Airforce same place/timeframe.

5.) Two Italian squadrons/units that flew the MC.202, preferably one in North Africa, and the other flying out of Sicily/Italy. same place/timeframe.

Ok thats about it... Anything clearer for you all?  

And you Luftwobble types don't need to get riled up   I have a pretty good reference for the Axis side already.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

Offline Westy

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2871
Historical Research Help Needed
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2000, 11:52:00 AM »
 Here's some info.  This info is tougher to find than one might think looks - from a web-search stand point.
 I would love to try something in this period from a Hurricanes seat  


> 1.) A Spitfire or Hurricane Unit assigned to Malta, Spring 1943

      RAF No. 249 Squadron - Started with Hurries, moved to Spit's.


2.) US, British or Canadian Squadrons flying Spitfires in North Africa in early 1943.
   
   
    A) "52d Fighter Group, and it's subordinate 2d, 4th and 5th Fighter Squadrons
        with Spitfires, moves from La Senia to Orleansville, Algeria."
 
    B) "The 308th Fighter Squadron, 31st Fighter Group with Spitfire Mk Vs begins
       operating from Casablanca, French Morocco instead of Tafaraoui, Algeria to
       provide protection for the Casablanca Conference between Churchill and
       Roosevelt.  With the conclusion of the Casablanca Conference, the 308th
       Fighter Squadron, 31st Fighter Group, which has been operating its Spitfire
       Mk Vs from Casablanca, returns to its base at Tafaraoui, Algeria."

        USAAF chronicles; http://www.southernheritagepress.com/Jan43.htm  
                          http://www.southernheritagepress.com/Feb43.htm  
                          http://www.southernheritagepress.com/Mar43.htm  
                          http://www.southernheritagepress.com/Apr43.htm  
                          http://www.southernheritagepress.com/May43.htm  

     C) RCAF No. 417 "City of Windsor" Squadron - Hurricanes- Spitfires. "17 Fighter
        Squadron formed at Charmy Down, England, on 27 November 1941. On 13 April
        1942, they moved to Africa, then to Malta on 15 June 1943, and on to Italy
        on 26 July 1943."


3.) Any Unit flying Beaufighters or Hurricane ground attack variants, North Africa
    early 1943.

     RAF No 43. Squadron "Fighting noodles" - Hurricanes
     


     Beaufighters - http://www.myring.demon.co.uk/beau/  
     RAF No. 227, No 252 and No. 272 squadrons used the Beaufighter in Africa.
     (USAAF 414th and 415th squadrons use them as Night fighters at that time)
   


4.) US B-26 Units with the 9th Airforce same place/timeframe.

     I could find specific reference only to the B-26's with the Twelfth AF
    in Africa, not the 9th. In the spring of 1943 almost all Allied BG's and
    FG'S were consolidated all together into the NorthWest African Air Force
    and Strategic Air Froce - NAAF and NASAF.

[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 04-10-2000).]

VISCONTI

  • Guest
Historical Research Help Needed
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2000, 02:39:00 PM »
1943 NORTH AFRICA

c.202

54' Stormo formed by 7' Gruppo and 16' Gruppo

7' Gruppo formed by

76' Squadriglia [leader: Adriano Visconti]  
86' Squadriglia [leader: Bruno Politi]
98' Squadriglia [leader: Sergio Maurer]

16' Gruppo composed by

167' Squadriglia
168' Squadriglia
169' Squadriglia


SICILY/ITALY 41-43


1941-?? Sicily

c202

4' Stormo 91' Gruppo 97' Squadriglia

1942-43 Sardinia (Sardegna)

c.202 then from mid 43 c.205

51' Stormo 20' Gruppo 151' Squadriglia

1943 Sicily

c.202 then from april 43 c.205 I serie (12.7 + 7.7mm)

1' Stormo 6' Gruppo formed by 88' Squadriglia and 79' Squadriglia


Gruppo=Group
Stormo=Flock
Squadriglia=Squadron


1943 NORTH AFRICA

SpitV 31' Fighter Group USAF

SpitV 72' Squadron  RAF


[This message has been edited by VISCONTI (edited 04-10-2000).]

Sorrow[S=A]

  • Guest
Historical Research Help Needed
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2000, 07:09:00 PM »
N africa would be very hard Verm, IIRC in the early stages of the war there were VERY few spits available to those fighter groups. Most were flying american planes I think.


Offline Vermillion

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4012
Historical Research Help Needed
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2000, 07:05:00 AM »
Sorrow, thats why its not the early war.   Spring 1943 was the dying days of the North African Campaign. By Summer 1943 the Germans had evacuated North Africa and the Sicilian campaign had started.

Primary Axis Fighters:
Bf109G2 (we have)
Bf109F4 (we have)
MC.202 (we have)
Bf110
Ju-87
Ju-88
Fw190A4 a few in Sicily (Might have soon A5)
Fw190F last of N.Africa/early Sicily (A8 might substitute)

Allied Fighters:
Spit Mk IX's (got it)
Spit MK V's (got it)
Hurricane
P-40
P-38 early model
B-25's
B-26's (got it)
Beaufighter
Misc. Brit Med & Light Bombers

Admittedly, we don't have every plane we need, in particular more bomber/ground attack types are needed.

But if you look at the planeset, I can't find a historical battle that has a more complete planeset, except for the late 1944 heavy bomber campaigns which we have done over and over and over again  

Definitely not perfect, but we have to work with what we have. Would you rather we not do anything at all?


------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

Offline gatt

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2441
Historical Research Help Needed
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2000, 07:18:00 AM »

During spring 1943 there were also some units with C.205V (1st series) operating from Sicily with fighter and/or recce duty.
"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

VISCONTI

  • Guest
Historical Research Help Needed
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2000, 12:11:00 PM »
Rgr that Gatt, for a more realistic situation c205 Serie I (12.7 + 7.7mm) must be added to the plane available. (we have)

c205 was used as fighter and as recon duty whit DROP TANK and photo apparat mounted in the wing.

DROP TANK
DROP TANK
DROP TANK

remember C205 have DROP TANK!!!!!!

DROP TANK was a news for the RA and was introduced to give at the recon (fighter type) plane the possibility to fly to theyr target.


Sorrow[S=A]

  • Guest
Historical Research Help Needed
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2000, 09:52:00 PM »
Not what I meant at all Verm!!

BTW I believe the Kittyhawk was the most common available plane. Obviously not modelled yet tho  

With mustang, P38, B17 and Nik2 present you could try some of the late pacific as well.

Also, with tanks, Spitfire MkIX La-5FN and 109G2 and G6 theres the finnish front and eastern lines of 1942-43 to consider...

Offline Vermillion

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4012
Historical Research Help Needed
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2000, 07:35:00 AM »
I was just playing with you Sorrow  

Late Pacific is an option, and it has been discussed, but with the single Japanese aircraft it makes it very dry (ie boring) for the Axis side. Plus the N1K2 suffers horribley at altitude, and would have a hard time with the B-17's in a "defense of the homeland" type of situation.

A fun one day setup I have considered though, would be an Okinawa event with F4U-1C/D performing ground attack, either P-51's or P-38's escort, and the N1K2's intercepting.

Eastern Front runs into many of the same problems as the Pacific. A single aircraft for the Russians, without droptanks or air-ground ordinance, makes it appropriate for a single day event, but not 5.

Great Ideas, we just need Pyro to kick the aircraft modeling factory into overdrive  


------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"