Lames

[Krusty]

That's a very limited scope of gameplay if you follow those "rules" -- and not as historically accurate as you'd think.

To the OP:

Frankly, I think if you have a little self respect that's going to influence how you fly more than the other guy's actions.

Sure, bomb n bail is idiotic and needs some sort of fix by HTC, but it's not such an easy thing to fix/control.

Don't cite Joachim leaving the game as a sign of bad gameplay. He's throwing a tantrum and going home (proverbially speaking) and he's not the first and won't be the last. It's a running joke on these forums to post a quit thread citing gameplay going down the toilet. Most times the person that did it doesn't really quit, and just looks bad when he sneaks back in (sometimes under a different name to save face).

That's why folks say "See you soon!" to threads like his. The very astute analysis in his quit thread suggests it's his own fault and he admits he's just frustrated he's flying into bad situations. As soon as he calms down he'll see it in a better light.

That doesn't indicate AH gameplay is going down the tubes, in any way.


So to the OP, yes there is some lameness. No, it is not epidemic. No it is not ruining the gameplay. There is far more fun to be had than the few rotten apple examples. Those examples are the exception to the rule. Try to think of all the FUN times you had vs all the times somebody bombs and bails. Consider vdallas is one guy. Consider the hundreds or thousands of guys you've had fun shooting down or flying with.

It puts things in a bit more tempered perspective, no?

The good play outweighs the bad, it's just that the bad examples get more press, so they seem more imposing than they really are.

[Shuffler]

Bombing and bailing is lame. I agree why not at least try to fight.

However, if it is a game and no big deal then you should not get spitting mad because someone wont at least try either.

There will always be kids doing what you described. No reason to let it bother you.

[Noir]

another thread about how lame vDALLAS is 

[Wiley]

Is this a lame idea or what?

Boelke had his famous dictum. What if we create a code of ethics to fly Aces High? What we need to create is a more professional, mature culture and environment. The noobs learn from the community and the community seems run by 2-weekers on steroids. If we fly by a known set of ethics, in time that will rub off to others. A rough draft would include such items as:

1. Vulching is only acceptable when there is an effort to take a base. Vulch for the sake of kills is weak.
2. Avoid ho'ing, honor in demonstrating the skills necessary to make a kill, not blind-Vegas-pull-the-trigger-luck.
3. Allowing a damaged plane to ditch is very honorable. How many stories do we read of WW2 pilots flying next to damaged enemy planes, saluting them and turning for home. Think of the challenge of landing on half a wing.
4. Check 6 is a rule of thumb, not an accident.
5. Before one jumps into a 1 v 1, or 2 v 2 ask your buddies if they need help. No need ruining a fight without asking if they need help.
6. Running from a horde is acceptable. Running to drag out a bird or two for a 1 v 1 or 1 v 2 is great. Running away from a fight??? On the flip side, if you are in a horde how many should chase and jump one plane? What is appropriate when the horde is attempting to take a base?
7. Ack hugging happens, when is it appropriate, when is it cowardice?
8. What is missed?

Boo

Wouldn't stick.  People are going to fly how they're going to fly regardless of what a (small) group of players decide to adhere to.

Unless the list is preceded by, 'Don't expect this of anybody, but this is generally what a 'cool' player will do.'

1) Being vulched is your own fault for upping under a crowd.
2) HOing is wrong, it's tactically weak 90% of the time.  If the odds against someone are 2:1 or greater, it becomes more tactically viable as if you present the outnumbered guy any kind of shot, he's smart to take it for a chance at reducing the odds quickly.
3) A damaged plane can still fight.  If the enemy is still capable of controlled flight, they are still a threat and need to be treated as such.  Shoot them til they are falling or exploded.
4) Agreed.
5) Agreed.  If he waves you off and a high plane comes in to bounce him, check six him, but it is not your problem.  He waved you off.
6) Combat in the main arena is side based.  If you find yourself in the middle of a group of enemy planes, it is your fault.  If you are in the horde, a couple of you should go after the lone con ideally.  If he's giving the couple trouble, someone with position should put the bandit down if more bandits are inbound.
7) Who cares?  If someone has an advantage it's reasonable to take it.
8) The main arena is side vs side combat.  You should expect all enemy vehicles to attack you if they are able. You should not expect to be able to dive under a crowd of enemy planes and have them ignore you because you are headed for a specific bandit and want to 1v1 him.
9) You should not ever expect to be able to cross an enemy's firing path without him firing.  Stay out of his guns, he won't be able to shoot you.
10) No whining.

Wiley.

[Zoney]

I do love hunting buffs.  I do have a few bail from time to time and my response, outloud, but just to myself is always, "oh geez".  Well maybe my squaddies here it on vox, but gettin mad about it does not help.

I wish 999000 would bail when he sees me.

But wait, he didn't get that good by not trying.

[SuperDud]

If anything in this game upsets you, you need to take a break.

[LCADolby]

If anything in this game upsets you, you need to take a break.

Trees upset me, they come out of no where when your on the deck having a fight. 

[SmokinLoon]

And this is the point that doesn't make sense. Bailing doesn't protect the score. In fact, Bomb'n'Bailers are probably the players least interested in score at all.
A bomber pilot who cares about his score will try to get home alive no matter what.

On the contrary, some of the abusers are so set on minimizing or maximizing their own or opposing players scores that they will do anything to effect it, and certain guys who do in fact care about their score think bailing/disco'ing from an aircraft is better for them and worse for the opposing player.

They are the same guys who park on pavement while in a gv and tower out at the first sound of a bomb falling and let the base be captured, etc because they dont want to get a notch against them or give a mark to an opposing player. 

They are the same bananas that shoot all their 30 cals, rear guns on 110, A20's, etc to give them "the edge".

It is *that* crowd that irks and annoys a lot of people.

[Lusche]

Just to clarify:
For someone flying a bomber, bailing is never helping the score at all. It's three guaranteed ""deaths" for score purposes, and thus hits your damage/sortie rating. If you fly for score in a buff, you will try to do everything not to get caught in the first place. If this is not possible (or simply didn't work as expected) and you are about to get attacked, it's always better to fight. You can't make it worse, but you may actually survive the attack and get home. Fighting us a chance. Bailing is not.

Everyone flying for score (less people than commonly assumed) or flying with an eye towards score (more common) does figure that out quickly.

Bomb'n'Bail happens mainly for three reasons:
- Real life interference. "Honey, dinner is ready!"
- Miserliness. "I don't care about anything, but NO way anybody gets a kill on me." or "Ha, now he will be upset about having spend 20 minutes climbing up to me, lolz!"
- "War efficiency". Bailing saves you the time of getting home. More bombs on target in shorter time. The staple of landgrab squads, and the most common reason.

[Noir]

- "War efficiency". Bailing saves you the time of getting home. More bombs on target in shorter time. The staple of landgrab squads, and the most common reason.

this is true and needs to be addressed, DALLAS probably rolled an M3 the second after he bailed

[grizz441]

This just shows that the game strategy needs to change with the times.  A high percentage of players are more interested in games with goals and strategy.  Flying around in a WW2 plane and shooting at other people isn't enough anymore to keep most people interested.  Maybe it was enough for a higher percentage of players 10 years ago.  If the only transparent strategic goal in aces high is to capture bases and win the war, then there is absolutely no incentive to ever return to base.  This is why you see guys bomb and bail, suicide strafe acks and towers, ignore fighters, avoid combat, etc.  Path to least resistance is not a bad thing, it's just human nature and you will never be able to change that.  You have to mold the game to work around it, which imo, is where Aces High falls flat.

What's that saying go? "Don't hate the player, hate the game".  

[Lusche]

this is true and needs to be addressed

Well, I don't know if it needs to... but nobody has yet come up with a working solution that's not been more "gamey" than the perceived problem.

A few years ago we even had a thread by HT on this topic. I'll see if I can dig it up later.

[Max]

Possible solution to "bomb & bail" players...don't know how easy it would be to code...

Any buff, intentionally bailed from (after bomb drop) = minus 25 bomb perks per plane.

[Lusche]

Possible solution to "bomb & bail" players...don't know how easy it would be to code...

Any buff, intentionally bailed from (after bomb drop) = minus 25 bomb perks per plane.

I) That doesn't hurt too many of "them", cause you don't need perks for that style of game play anyway. All the common and useful buffs are perk free.
II) Instead of bailing from a perfectly fine bomber, a bomb'n'bailer will just point nose down. The effect is just the same, takes just a few seconds more.

[Wiley]

Possible solution to "bomb & bail" players...don't know how easy it would be to code...

Any buff, intentionally bailed from (after bomb drop) = minus 25 bomb perks per plane.

Ok.  What if they auger?  What if they fly intentionally through ack until they're killed?  How will it be able to tell that from a legitimate ack kill?

Bomb and bailers that do it for efficiency are impossible to stop, IMO.  Not being able to up with ords for say, 5 or 10 minutes after being shot down/dying/discoing if heavy would slow it down, but be wildly unpopular and unfairly penalize people who were legitimately shot down/crashed/discoed.

Wiley.