Teh Hordez

[Butcher]

Lucky me I have a good book to read when the bishops are doing their typical 37x P51D Raid to shut down every hanger before anyone has time to up.

Yes I had to start a film just to record the number.

[kvuo75]

make bases easier to take (5-10% buildings down, remove the ack), make map reset happen every 8 hours if it hasn't been "won".. the hordes will fizzle once they realize there is no actual war. 

[EVZ]

Many people have said it before me, but I also fail to understand how anyone can find fun flying in the middle of the horde - I'm sorry, but if you find "fun" in that, you must be the most boring, unambitious person on the planet. - In the end its their 15 bucks and I guess they can do whatever they want with it....I will just never understand that mentality.

For me, flying in MISSIONS is a TEAM effort, there is comaradarie in the chatter, and cooperation is aimed at the success of the GROUP not just the egotistical individual ... Cooperative effort is a natural human activity and those who cannot comprehend it suffer from some form of developmental neurosis. The Missions I have flown with in my short time here have been fairly stiffly opposed and have challenged my skills and educated my ignorance. It's a competitive game and attracts competitive personalitys, that's a given and it's healthy ... Opposing things others enjoy simply for personal reasons is just anti-social and a symptom of deeper problems. 

[Tilt]

Don't need to do a search.  Having been here quite a bit longer then you.  The definition of a horde has changed considerably.  Most of us who've been around a while would gladly go back to what was seen as a 'horde' in the early days.  There is no comparison to the 'horde' of today. 

The horde has not changed IMO. It is the gathering of players to a freindly dar bar. It goes right back to AW4W where "swarms" would focus on the central lake or an area later christened as (by cz) as Disney land. With AW2 came map wide land grab, quickly followed and sustained in AW3.

What the horde does has not changed. It roll's maps. It land grabs. It may or may not have a mission bias at its core. It is only effective and sustaining whilst it is able to sustain/maintain inertia or when it has central figure to focus upon.

[Butcher]

The horde has not changed IMO. It is the gathering of players to a freindly dar bar. It goes right back to AW4W where "swarms" would focus on the central lake or an area later christened as (by cz) as Disney land. With AW2 came map wide land grab, quickly followed and sustained in AW3.

What the horde does has not changed. It roll's maps. It land grabs. It may or may not have a mission bias at its core. It is only effective and sustaining whilst it is able to sustain/maintain inertia or when it has central figure to focus upon.

Actually there's a far cry difference between the hording from a few years ago and today. Typically its two countries against one to be a horde, while two countries have limited contact. While this is still most common today, we now deal with this (sorry there were quite a few more planes just out of view ->

[The Fugitive]

For me, flying in MISSIONS is a TEAM effort, there is comaradarie in the chatter, and cooperation is aimed at the success of the GROUP not just the egotistical individual ... Cooperative effort is a natural human activity and those who cannot comprehend it suffer from some form of developmental neurosis. The Missions I have flown with in my short time here have been fairly stiffly opposed and have challenged my skills and educated my ignorance. It's a competitive game and attracts competitive personalitys, that's a given and it's healthy ... Opposing things others enjoy simply for personal reasons is just anti-social and a symptom of deeper problems. 

Missions are great and lots of fun cover all that you have said. On the other hand having an over whelming force in a game is what we are talking about. Your new and at this point you have little chance of having any "personal" accomplishments. You need and enjoy the "group" accomplishments. Thats fine, but eventually you will find that you can achieve your own and will look to challenge yourself to get them. Don't talk down to the "egotistical individual", you will soon be one.

The horde has not changed IMO. It is the gathering of players to a freindly dar bar. It goes right back to AW4W where "swarms" would focus on the central lake or an area later christened as (by cz) as Disney land. With AW2 came map wide land grab, quickly followed and sustained in AW3.

What the horde does has not changed. It roll's maps. It land grabs. It may or may not have a mission bias at its core. It is only effective and sustaining whilst it is able to sustain/maintain inertia or when it has central figure to focus upon.

The 444th Air Mafia was well known as one of those base grabbing squad back then and later as they got better here on Aces High. The difference being that we hit a number of bases at once when we had numbers. We not only wanted the bases, we wanted to fight for them. Even when Tzr lead joint ops with a number of squads on the trinity map the force was split between a number of bases at once. Today the horde is a group that is nothing more than a flight of locast destroying everything in their path. They don't defend the bases they grab because they can't up from them as nothing is left.

Actually there's a far cry difference between the hording from a few years ago and today. Typically its two countries against one to be a horde, while two countries have limited contact. While this is still most common today, we now deal with this (sorry there were quite a few more planes just out of view ->
(Image removed from quote.)

I would love for HTC to comment on this type of mission. How can you defend against this? Short of having 20 guys sitting in the tower waiting for a reported inbound mission, how can you fight against something like this?

[Stang]

For me, flying in MISSIONS is a TEAM effort, there is comaradarie in the chatter, and cooperation is aimed at the success of the GROUP not just the egotistical individual ... Cooperative effort is a natural human activity and those who cannot comprehend it suffer from some form of developmental neurosis. The Missions I have flown with in my short time here have been fairly stiffly opposed and have challenged my skills and educated my ignorance. It's a competitive game and attracts competitive personalitys, that's a given and it's healthy ... Opposing things others enjoy simply for personal reasons is just anti-social and a symptom of deeper problems. 

Actually, it's much simpler than that. Those that like flying in hordes, or as you say, team efforts, just simply can't kill or stay alive on their own, and their only way to achieve any success is to group up and mob inanimate objects. Don't dress it up for anything more than it is.

Personally I don't really care about it anymore, this thing has been argued about ad nauseum over the years. If I see a big horde, I'm gonna grab a temp or a jet and go to work on you nancy's.

[Debrody]

Butchers pic is a perfect exmple of what i said.
Pony mission, high, big numbers. How can you defend against it?
1: up a couple 109Ks, lalas or some fast birds. Its a fail, they will BnZ you like crazy or escape to friends/home when you get position on them
2: set up a counter-fighter sweep and come with alt. Its usually a fail (takes too long time, they can still run hom), but at least it has a very minor chance of success.
3: 262. This wont solve anything. Takes a little time to get there, 262s are very easy to dodge when the cons arent on the deck, also all of them will try to ho you...  not much fun trying to avoid 15-30 ho attempts in 10 seconds..
Now what?

[BaldEagl]

At least in Butcher's pic, other than the N1K, it looks like they put together something resembling historical accuracy so kudos to that point.  They may however, have flown that group into an opposing horde rather than (presumably) to an undefended field.

I've mentioned it before but one night I organized a fighter sweep with around 30 Spit IX's and flew to a base that was being horded.  The next thing I knew we were the horde.  Another mission I ran was with 9 Ju-87's and 10-12 Bf109E-4's and Bf109F-4's, technically, I guess, a horde.  I like occasionally running those types of historically accurate missions and I'm sorry but other than scenarios the only place to do it is the MA.

That said those were two missions in about a years time.  Other than that I fly alone so generally disfavor the horde but when I run into one that looks like it was put together with some sense of immersion for the participants it doesn't bother me as much.  It also allows me a better chance to attack than the mixed sets which take away all your planes advantages.  I particularly hate fast planes and turny planes in the same group.

So anyway what I'm trying to say is that both the composition and the mission of the horde make a difference as to whether it's a detrimental horde or just people having fun.

[The Fugitive]

At least in Butcher's pic, other than the N1K, it looks like they put together something resemling historical accuracy so kudos to that point.  They may however, have flown that group into an opposing horde rather than (presumably) to an undefended field.

I've mentioned it before but one night I organized a fighter sweep with around 30 Spit IX's and flew to a base that was being horded.  The next thing I knew we were the horde.  Another mission I ran was with 9 Ju-87's and 10-12 Bf109E-4's and Bf109F-4's, technically, I guess, a horde.  I like occasionally running those types of historically accurate missions and I'm sorry but other than scenarios the only place to do it is the MA.

That said those were two missions in about a years time.  Other than that I fly alone so generally disfavor the horde but when I run into one that looks like it was put together with some sense of immersion for the participants it doesn't bother me as much.  It also allows me a better chance to attack than the mixed sets which take away all your planes advantages.  I particularly hate fast planes and turny planes in the same group.

Here's the difference, with your "horde"  did the 109's fly off and leave the ju's to their own devices? Did the JUs auger at the first sign of opposition? You also didn't have enough ord to completely shut down the base and white flag the town.

The pony mission is a horde, and while it "looks" like that had a "historically correct" mission group history had nothing to do with the selection of plane. The planes were selected because they care a lot of ord, and when diving from alt are about the fastest thing in the air and so they can run away from the fight.... unless enough people hit what they are aiming at then they come back to cap.....which means they run away from the defenders that show up so the goons can get in while the defenders are chasing ponies.

In that picture there is enough ords to take down ALL hangers on a large field. This means fighter, bomber, AND vehicle hangers.

[uptown]

The last mission I was in, 10 or 15 of us took B5Ns armed with torpedos to shut down a VBase. 

[68ZooM]

How can you defend against this? Short of having 20 guys sitting in the tower waiting for a reported inbound mission, how can you fight against something like this?

they can be defended it just take guys that don't care about dying to up continually( as long as hangers are up) it can be done, with the skill level of the attacking horde most will auger trying to kill you as you up and in time the odds will change and they scamper off, granted it is and does get old doing this against the horde all the time.

[Butcher]

At least in Butcher's pic, other than the N1K, it looks like they put together something resembling historical accuracy so kudos to that point.  They may however, have flown that group into an opposing horde rather than (presumably) to an undefended field.

There was only 2 defenders at this base, actually only one person upped in a plane, I got out in a wirbl seconds before the VH went down.

Overall I counted 37 mustangs, 2 N1ks, 1 C47s, 2 sets of Lancasters, 2 Me109s and a 262.

Explain where this is anything remotely historical? This is a video game and clearly the mentality is to simply overwhelm the defenders so bad to the point nobody can defend period.

Frankly I don't care, let em pay $15 to attack undefended bases all day, eventually people will realize kamikazing into hangers isn't all that fun and actually want to learn to tank/dogfight.

Who am I kiddin, horde away.

[Tilt]

Today the horde is a group that is nothing more than a flight of locast destroying everything in their path.

locusts?

............... and has always been thus. It is a human swarm gathering thru similar instincts......... safety in numbers, success thru association, only requiring the individual to simply join the greater throng and add to its number yet revel in the success of the greater team.

Because horde members do congratulate each other on their successes. You can all comment upon how as individuals you are able to exercise your skills individually yet the AH horde still gives its members congratulatory feedback on the success of the greater group when a base is captured.

Whine all we like a significant proportion of the AH playing community likes to be part of a horde i.e a group of significant enough size that permits them to "win" and that tendancy has always been thus because that tendancy is alive and well within the human psyche

[The Fugitive]

locusts?

............... and has always been thus. It is a human swarm gathering thru similar instincts......... safety in numbers, success thru association, only requiring the individual to simply join the greater throng and add to its number yet revel in the success of the greater team.

Because horde members do congratulate each other on their successes. You can all comment upon how as individuals you are able to exercise your skills individually yet the AH horde still gives its members congratulatory feedback on the success of the greater group when a base is captured.

Whine all we like a significant proportion of the AH playing community likes to be part of a horde i.e a group of significant enough size that permits them to "win" and that tendancy has always been thus because that tendancy is alive and well within the human psyche

There is only one person who spells worst than I, and I think that is why we rarely hear from Hitech 

I don't remember the bases as flatten in the old days. I do remember the "leaders" yelling not to hit ord or troops after the FH were down because they intended to use the base after the capture. I do remember the leaders assigning a few pilots to run supplies to the bases to get them back up as fast as possible. Not today.

Personally, If I'm in a mission and don't hit what I was told to bomb, I don't shot anyone down, get shot down, or worst yet aurger in. It doesn't matter to me how the rest of the group did. I didn't help at all. Are todays players so blinded that they are OK with taking those slaps on the back for doing nothing?