Teh Hordez

[wil3ur]

Don't generally comment, but I would like to say that I have seen you out of the horde far more than in it, wil. Since you are one I recognize, like shiv, from in game, I would say both of you must be around where I end up, more often fighting against a growing dar bar that we almost always are on the lower side of.
I too hate the horde, either side, and try to up against it until my graphics card can no longer take the pain, and fly away from it if it is green. Figthing with a FR of 1 is making it too easy for the red guys, I am bad enough without that.

 
Bob (jeep00)

  WHISKEY TIME!!!

[Wiley]

And that's the stupidly repetitive answer from someone comfortable in the horde.

No one is asking for the perfect 1 v 1.   Combat against multiple enemies is good fun.  Wading into a 4 v 4 or even an 8 v 4 can be fun.   Running into a never ending 8 v 1 gets old.

A dogfight in my mind is a swirling mass of planes, and the best dogfights happen when those numbers are roughly equal.

It has nothing to do with a co alt, 1 v 1 fight, which is why the same idiotic 'go to the DA' response gets really old.

So get 3 of your buddies and start from the edge and work your way in.  Somewhere along the edge of the horde, there are 4 to 8 planes close together.  Attack them but be mindful if they start to run toward their buddies.

Alternately, bemoan the fact that not enough people play like you want them to.

Wiley.

[SmokinLoon]

Bustr,

I was indeed pleasantly surprised when I saw HTC switch to a 50% town and white flag some months ago.  This did tame the Lions and added some teeth to the Lambs, to use your analogy.  Yes, the Lions  and some misguided Lambs cried foul..... "It is TOO EASY!!!!   my country was not able to win the war because it only takes one bomber to get a town white flagged, one attacker to deack and one goon to bring in 10 troops   "   <<< The horror you say???

HTC obliged and rolled back the town white flag percentage to 75%.  Now we have new flag system and the same old capture dynamics as before.  So, the stradegy rolls back to 2006 hordes and many complain that there has been no progress.  No wonder HTC would rather rearrange his sock drawer than try and design a new generation of AH that would no doubt raise criticism of how the game has been ruined, rather than improved.  

Another thing, folks that are in agreement with game play are in the arenas playing.  Those that are not, are on the forums ..... hopefully to give some wise suggestions for a new direction that would appease the majority and boost the games popularity and subscriptions.

What would change that is to have the towns be %100 down.  It takes that much more TIME to capture it, not people.  Having to inspect each and every building in the town takes multiple pairs of eyes scouting.  As it is now, the towns need to get hammers X amount and when the white flag goes up then the challenge is gone.  Of course, the knee jerkers will say "that will bring even bigger hordes!!!"  My reply is simple: how much bigger can the hordes get?  30v1 odds is no better than the 36v1 odds for the defenders.  Adding in the the %100 will force some of the muscle of the horde to become scouts/eyes.  Remove the white flag, up it to %95-%100 and find out.  

[Guppy35]

So get 3 of your buddies and start from the edge and work your way in.  Somewhere along the edge of the horde, there are 4 to 8 planes close together.  Attack them but be mindful if they start to run toward their buddies.

Alternately, bemoan the fact that not enough people play like you want them to.

Wiley.

LOL thanks Wiley.  All these years playing and I never thought of that!

I was responding to the 'go to the DA' comment is all.  It's the classic idiotic response in this conversation.

I have no great illusions that the game is going to change and have adjusted my thinking accordingly over the years.  Ultimately the dream is that instead of it being so many different groups, that the game can evolve to where the fight is king whether it be in pursuit of taking a base, tank fighting or air combat.

[Wiley]

LOL thanks Wiley.  All these years playing and I never thought of that!

Well y'know, sometimes you just need someone who's not as close to the problem to point you in the right direction.

I was responding to the 'go to the DA' comment is all.  It's the classic idiotic response in this conversation.

I have no great illusions that the game is going to change and have adjusted my thinking accordingly over the years.  Ultimately the dream is that instead of it being so many different groups, that the game can evolve to where the fight is king whether it be in pursuit of taking a base, tank fighting or air combat.

I guess I just don't look at the MAs as committed fights, maybe I went through the annoyance at people not sticking to fight relatively quickly a couple years ago in WBs or something.  When I'm in the MA, I look at it as I've got to take anything I can get from them, they aren't going to give me an opportunity to kill them, like one would in a committed fight.

Wiley.

[WYOKIDIII]

And that's the stupidly repetitive answer from someone comfortable in the horde.

No one is asking for the perfect 1 v 1.   Combat against multiple enemies is good fun.  Wading into a 4 v 4 or even an 8 v 4 can be fun.   Running into a never ending 8 v 1 gets old.

A dogfight in my mind is a swirling mass of planes, and the best dogfights happen when those numbers are roughly equal.

It has nothing to do with a co alt, 1 v 1 fight, which is why the same idiotic 'go to the DA' response gets really old.

No. Your over thinking the problem . If you want a swirling mass of planes roughly equal , that requires 2 hordes meeting , so go fly with hordes . If you take the time to study your map you won't ever get into an 8v1 unless you choose to . If neither of these is what you want...go to the DA . Outside of this just quit . The game has ALWAYS been this way and it always will . Adapt or move on . But from your response I gather you don't realize the fun of doing your best in a fight you cannot possibly win . Challenges aren't for everyone .

[Guppy35]

No. Your over thinking the problem . If you want a swirling mass of planes roughly equal , that requires 2 hordes meeting , so go fly with hordes . If you take the time to study your map you won't ever get into an 8v1 unless you choose to . If neither of these is what you want...go to the DA . Outside of this just quit . The game has ALWAYS been this way and it always will . Adapt or move on . But from your response I gather you don't realize the fun of doing your best in a fight you cannot possibly win . Challenges aren't for everyone .

You've been here for how long?  "Game has always been this way" comment is based on how much time?

[MajWoody]

You've been here for how long?  "Game has always been this way" comment is based on how much time?

   




His CPID says it all Dan. 

[Ardy123]

You've been here for how long?  "Game has always been this way" comment is based on how much time?

 

[Tank-Ace]

I've gotta say, I've played for nearly 6 years, and I really don't remember all the hording. Perhaps time has blured the details, but it seems like a more recent phenomenon, like within the past 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 years.


That being said, I really don't see the point to winning the war, or even pushing very hard to take land. You can never 'win' the game, since there is no end goal to achieve, and the only reward you get for 'winnenz teh warz!' is about a couple of hours to a day's worth of perks, and a message saying 'you have won the war'.

But oh the cost! How many innocent fights were slain in their mad attempts to conquor the arena   ?!

[Tilt]

Dynamic Zone / Field limits. Restrict horde activity and tend toward greater balance in local game play.

[Debrody]

Jeff,
i dont know when and where you seen me "hoarding". If i was in a large group, that was possibly a group vs group situation, in other words a furball. Furballing can be fun unless there are too many spineless runners involved. Stated earlyer, i couldnt kill a single spixteen in 2 weeks, so think about it. Hell, went crazy and upped an LGhey once, when got tired of runners: killed the whole jokers squad in 5 minutes.
btw i see your point, and tryed it many times. Still, the odds arent as good. A 10k Pony/190/lala/tiffie can still dive away and run to its ack/friends even if i come at 15k.
Anyway, yes, i expect a spitfire to give up his E against a 109 g-6 and have some fun rather than the endless climb away - ho back down process. I except a co-E jak not to turn tails from 4k out and run to 6 friendlies then suddenly find balls in a 7v1. Hell it wasnt that bad in the past, made many friends by fighting a good, including most of my former/current squaddies. Youre damn right, its not my game anymore.
<S>

[Chilli]

What would change that is to have the towns be %100 down.  It takes that much more TIME to capture it, not people.  Having to inspect each and every building in the town takes multiple pairs of eyes scouting.  As it is now, the towns need to get hammers X amount and when the white flag goes up then the challenge is gone.  Of course, the knee jerkers will say "that will bring even bigger hordes!!!"  My reply is simple: how much bigger can the hordes get?  30v1 odds is no better than the 36v1 odds for the defenders.  Adding in the the %100 will force some of the muscle of the horde to become scouts/eyes.  Remove the white flag, up it to %95-%100 and find out.  

Smokin'

I am no Snailman, but I would suggest that you look at the real numbers that we can draw conclusions from.  I don't dismiss what you propose.  I am merely pointing out the facts are not on your side.

1) The reason that the white flag and 50% town was brought into play was the stagnant maps that were never reset by players.  That along with the numerous arrows pointing to the unintended consequences of redesign of damaged buildings (in contrast to undamaged buildings), about 50 more structures in town, and the addition of hills and hedges that impeded ground level verification on town status.

2) Take the data on bases captured under the pre - "new" town, compare it to the already tested 100 % no flagged "new" town.  Hands down the base captures went FLAT!  I remember the week the new towns, and vehicle bases came out.  The capture crowd learned quickly.  Their immediate answer was the NOE raid, or in other words HORDE.  So, the cries  started  ".... why do you win the warz type ruin the game?"  << NEVER AGREED WITH THIS

3) When HTC made a GOOD decision to make the traditional town capture easier 50% and with white flag, the maps were being reset again by players (even when we had split arenas).  On top of the resets, the GAME PLAY was diverse.  You had hordes from missions and defenders, but you also had multiple fights involving all 3 countries in just about every area of the map.  But this was not good enough    >>>> A small group could affect the outcome of the war  <<<<  The horror you say 

4) Making things more stagnant again?  Smokin' you have a long way to go to convince me this is what will help to keep subscriptions.  What I do think would be both more challenging and fun, is more things to target that would affect base capibilities.  We used to be able to pork fuel to 25%.  Instead of country wide ENY, find a comprehensive way to affect ENY in areas saturated with friendlies already.  Those sort of things that can give a player something to contribute to in offense or defense, besides being the 10th plane to cap a deacked airfield.

[Lusche]

What would change that is to have the towns be %100 down.  It takes that much more TIME to capture it, not people.

More TIME = MORE EFFORT. More effort results in more people necessary to accomplish the same stuff in the same time. And this is required because you do not have more more time. A NOE will have to kill X buildings before the defenders show up in numbers. A "regular" base capture attempt (and that's what most battles are) is also facing the same 45 min building popup time frame as before. That's the reason why we don't have that many airfield captures by just one to three guys anymore.
So getting more people in your mission to get the job done is a natural result.

And this is exactly what happened. Today, capturing fields is more difficult than ever before, and the number of captures has dropped radically.
Now this mustn't be a bad thing in itself - Longer, harder fought battles sounds quite appealing to me personally - but there is a limit (albeit a very vague) what the gameplay can endure. If you make base captures so difficult that players do hardly see a chance to see them happen, the general frustration level rises. No matter what our individual motivations in AH are, and what stance each of us has on the landgrab game - base captures are the main driving force behind MA combat, and capturing territory by grabbing bases is the only defined "strategic", teambuilding goal we currently have in AH. You can only go so far in increasing capture difficulty before tipping the balance and break this gameplay feature.

And so the town requirement was brought back from 100% to the current level and the white flag was added. It's still more difficult than before the town and arena changes (in the context of LWMA), but not as crippling for game dynamics as the "everything down" requirement.

[Noir]

all this talk is nice but did HTC ever give the impression that they actually cared?