Lone wolves

[Krusty]

Find the right guys on, post an Emil, P-39, P40b mission.

There is no way to fail.

Well, there is until they're all scrambling in the hangar complaining "I can't find the P-40B!"

 

[JUGgler]

Solution:  How could HTC balance the Borg approach to base capture?  The answer again is simply INCREASE THE PERCENTAGE OF SUCCESS FOR SMALLER NUMBERS.  It is simple math, and not rocket science.  If you use 20 teamates to take one base and I use 4 teams of 5, totaling 20 teamates to take 4 bases, how long would it take before some of the 20 teamates would have to go on the defense?  
 

I also think bases should be easier to take. With that said I think there should be something that motivates or organizes a response to base takers. The base takers are confronted with a ironic situation. They can overwhelm a base with #s yet not capture the base cause one guy in a jet smokes their goons OR some dude jumped in the map room and shoots all their troops, this is mitigated a bit IF the target base can be supported with GVs but it's still  a fairly awkward situation.

The basetakers who start with a "mission" enjoy an overwhelming advantage cause there is nothing to organize a like "defensive mission", the "lions share" of defenders are loners and not organized in the least and it shows. I've yet to figure out why some missions are defended against and yet others go untouched. I still think making the bases easier to take, then after capture the base goes into limbo for a small amount of time before it actually changes hands so the attackers must defend their potential prize would help the interaction and support a sense of "desperate effort" that is lacking in almost all base fights!


as it is now after a base is captured the attackers as well as the defenders move on to other areas. The struggle for the base should not end exactly at the moment the last troop enters the map room, the ack should not mysteriously rebirth the instant the last troop enters the map room, the base should not be usable by the takers at the instant the last troop enters the map room!


I say lets find a way to encourage the "totality of desperate struggle" as much as possible  



JUGgler

[Krusty]

No valid solution should revert us back to the "2-3 guys sneak NOE to a base and can take it within 3 minutes" milkrunning bogus adventures that were rampant throughout the arenas before HTC listened to our cries and made bases harder to take.

You're saying the hordes are a result of bases being too hard to take.

Wrong, I say. I say you're putting the effect before the cause. The hordes are a direct result of milk runners not wanting to expand their skills or grow in the game. They don't want to progress past the first stage of the learning curve. The harder base take requirements are not creating hordes... They're preventing milk runners. The milk runners, instead of getting better, simply take 50 more people and create the horde.


It's the weak skills of the horde that make the game suffer. NOT the base take requirements.

Some fights can get large but not be a horde. Some base takes can create sector-wide fighting zones where any kind of combat could be had and I wouldn't qualify that as a horde. A horde is set up for the purpose of steamrolling. YOu see that often enough when you get 3 full sector dar bars hitting a field with almost no defenders, and then 2 sectors away the enemy is doing the same..... instead of fighting each other they horde bases. Hording has a major milkrun "avoid conflict" mentality IMO.

[The Fugitive]

I'm one and if finally occurred to me why tonite. First of all this is not a dig or flame job on the mission type folks. They're just dandy. But tonight i joined 3 missions flying a heavy 51D and got to drop 2 bombs. I spent an hour and a half flying like I was told just to arrive at target to find nothing to shoot at or bomb. Boring ! I ended up bailing out during the 3rd mission because quite frankly I felt like i was just flying around doing nothing. The first 2 missions had 6 sets of 17s, at least 5 heavy 51s and just as many 38s. All that for a small airfield and a Vbase.
So as instructed, I held ord just to watch from 15K as the 17s did their thing. Base shut down, no uppers......now what. Land and type WTG.  

I'd rather fly the way I want to and get killed rather then fly in a mass and never get a chance to even engage a bad guy. This is why I never was a fan of these big squads that we have out there. I don't want or need CptMarv or GenFab telling me what to fly, when to fly, where to fly and how to fly. I'll figure it out.

Oh I forgot....I was allowed to kill 4 town buildings in one mission.  

I should say that ALL the guys in the missions were great guys, I like all of them. They just enjoy a different type of play. Actually more realistic then my preference of play. I'm just expressing my personal point of view. 

I love winging with my buddy Uptown...even tho he leaves me to die while hes off chasing some running dweeb in a pony  Lone wolf, winging, squad fighter sweeps, base capture missions, all are fun aspects of this game. Switching from one to another keeps things fresh and fun.... for me anyway.

This is the biggest problem with the hordes. Mission planners that don't have a plan! They rely on numbers to accomplish what there lack of skill can't cover. I agree with Krusty, that to many people are ok with being mediocre in this game as long as they can run in a gang/horde. It's up to the mission leaders and squad leaders to ......what for it......

LEAD!

They are the ones that must look at what they have and say I have too much for this mission and split the force. This makes it more challenging for the players, as well as giving everyone a part to play. On top of that, it will create more fights along the front as the force attempts to grab one base while porking two others. Defenders will defend if there looks like there is a shot at defending. Trying to defend at a base with 10 to 1 against isn't fun so no one is going to show, but 2 or 3 to 1... I'd give that a shot!

If the community/leaders don't start to lead HTC will have to step in. Hordes are going to kill this game. People in hordes get bored and leave the game, and for right now, those coming in are keeping pace with those leaving. Should the numbers start to drop, things WILL change. Remember back when 4 out of 5 missions where NOE? Not any more 


 

[Krusty]

I think part of it is a misunderstanding on the part of the hordlings....

They recall they have fun in the big fights... So they make a big group. Only they don't recreate the fun because they don't have the same point, the same combat, the same action. It's a shallow attempt to recreate based on not understanding what it was they were trying to recreate.

[Widewing]

I always fly alone, or I should say, without a wingman or another to fly with me. I haven't joined a mission in many years. Why? Invariably, most missions are badly thought out. Moreover, there are too many helpless player that join the missions, guys who cannot possibly defend themselves, much less support anyone else. Likewise, I don't need a guy with a fractional K/D ratio telling me how to fly. I will assist a mission if I happen to be there, but I will not participate as part of the mission.

Besides, I prefer to fly mid-war fighters, which are never selected for missions, nor do they carry the ordnance they want. Indeed, if in a P-39Q for example, the Mustang mission will be miles ahead of me in short order.

[Widewing]

Lazy server double post.....

[JUGgler]

No valid solution should revert us back to the "2-3 guys sneak NOE to a base and can take it within 3 minutes" milkrunning bogus adventures that were rampant throughout the arenas before HTC listened to our cries and made bases harder to take.

You're saying the hordes are a result of bases being too hard to take.

Wrong, I say. I say you're putting the effect before the cause. The hordes are a direct result of milk runners not wanting to expand their skills or grow in the game. They don't want to progress past the first stage of the learning curve. The harder base take requirements are not creating hordes... They're preventing milk runners. The milk runners, instead of getting better, simply take 50 more people and create the horde.

This is rather naive, These masses that take bases are made up of very diverse types and skill levels of players, from the very best to the very worst and everywhere in between. There is something to the accomplishments felt from taking bases that attracts a wide range of players. This should not be restricted it should be encouraged but the ability to respond to base captures should be enhanced to encourage a sense of "struggle" that includes risk, reward, thrill of victory and the agony of defeat! The system has made it one sided the players are merely operating within the system that has been created!


The system can be changed FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR easier than the mindsets of the folks wo use the system!





JUGgler

[Karnak]

Missions are fun when they succeed to within a second or 2 of failing.  Overwhelming numbers for easy base captures are for little boys who were bullied, abused by their gay uncle, and will otherwise amount to jack squat in the real world.

I dont blame the "Lone Wolf" Squadron members, not one bit.  

Hey now, I was on the "bullied" end of the spectrum and I detest the "play it safe, hide in the horde" mission mentality.  I also go lone wolf when I play.

[Changeup]

Players should be able to buy snippets of intel, number of planes, type of planes, GVs that are in missions by using perk points.  If the intel has already been purchased, the buyers name is posted.  If the player logs, changes sides, or gets discod after the purchase, it gets reposted.  The planners could still augment the mission after posting but if you applied equipment minimums to missions, it would keep "counter-intel" from being too much of a problem.

Intel was and is a huge part of any war or upcoming battle and would help make base takes a bit easier and give some time to assemble a defense.

Troops should be able to do damage to towns....mass airdrops...how cool would that be?

[Krusty]

Juggler, not all base take efforts are hordes. There is a difference. The spectrum exists yes, but there tends to be a mindset/mentality amongst those that can ONLY horde. Some who have progressed beyond that point might slum it to join the horde but as we've heard in this thread they often find the missions dull, boring, unhelpful, and no fun at all.


So yes there is a wide variety of skills and pilot types.... But we find the same few over and over making 100-player steamroll-base-X missions with no point. They fit the category I was describing more than the ones you described.

[bortas1]

  umm lone wolves isnt that an oxymoron?

[Wiley]

Players should be able to buy snippets of intel, number of planes, type of planes, GVs that are in missions by using perk points.  If the intel has already been purchased, the buyers name is posted.  If the player logs, changes sides, or gets discod after the purchase, it gets reposted.  The planners could still augment the mission after posting but if you applied equipment minimums to missions, it would keep "counter-intel" from being too much of a problem.

Intel was and is a huge part of any war or upcoming battle and would help make base takes a bit easier and give some time to assemble a defense.

Troops should be able to do damage to towns....mass airdrops...how cool would that be?

Er... would that not be undone by people not formally posting the mission, thus rendering the whole idea pointless?

I'd suggest a system where on the map it shows the number of enemy planes above a certain altitude, possibly displayed as a line in the sector they are located in that gets longer the more aircraft are in the sector.  This would give the defenders a heads-up that there are enemy planes in that sector, and it might be worth going there to stop whatever they're doing.

Sure, it has the downside that the players would have to look at the map or monitor the country channel for people calling out enemy activity, but I believe if people used this proposed system, they could use it effectively to respond to far more threats than they currently do.

Wiley.

[Widewing]

umm lone wolves isnt that an oxymoron?

Wolves are pack animals... The lone wolf is the exception to that. Thus, the use of the term.

[JUGgler]

Juggler, not all base take efforts are hordes. There is a difference. The spectrum exists yes, but there tends to be a mindset/mentality amongst those that can ONLY horde. Some who have progressed beyond that point might slum it to join the horde but as we've heard in this thread they often find the missions dull, boring, unhelpful, and no fun at all.


So yes there is a wide variety of skills and pilot types.... But we find the same few over and over making 100-player steamroll-base-X missions with no point. They fit the category I was describing more than the ones you described.

I think base captures is a critical component to the game. It is the current system that encourages these base takes with no follow on commitment. I think most people think the capture system is integral to a healthy gaming environment, lets face it most will find constant furballing dull and anti climactic. The "all out effort" base take is rendered lame cause once the capture happens all fight is over cause the ack comes up immediately and the base is usable immediately for the victors requiring then an equal effort to recapture the base.
I think the ack and buildings should stay down (albeit the base is now defaulted to the current side who got troops in) and not be usable for either side until a set of troops has cooked in the maproom for 20-30 minutes. This would force (if they wanted to keep it) the original attackers to defend their new conquest amd give the original defenders a small light of hope at retaining posession of said property, creating risk, reward, victory and defeat!


As it is now, the victors certainly can't feel a sense of victory cause the capture had little risk or struggle and the vanquished don't feel a sense of defeat cause they probably weren't even there
 or honestly never had a chance in the 1st place!

encourage the desperate struggle and this game will be amazuzuzing!

With this idea, the capture system could be made easier! and it should be!


JUGgler