Move towns for better fights...

[caldera]

...and other hare-brained ideas:

Trying to find a way to allow defenders to get airborne without eliminating the will to steamroll -err attack.  The basic gist of it is to move the fight away from the airfields and to a location where there will be no ack hugging or vulching.  The way things are now, the attackers flatten and/or cap the field - eliminating the ability to fight back.  The idea of the game is to fight after all, not avoid it.

Here is a common battle ground on the Baltic map:



The spawns allow roughly the same drive to the field as to the town.  GVers hate being bombed and will soon be enjoying a reduced icon visibility from the air.  With the current spawns,  there will be much more sneaking to airfields and vulching.  Quid pro quo, I say. 

This is my proposal for moving the towns and spawns away from the field:



First, the towns get moved far away enough from the base so there is no base ack covering them.  Then friendly and enemy spawns are placed equidistant, on opposite sides of the towns.  This makes for a chance to actually fight in towns, tank to tank. 

A few other tidbits:
- Remove all ack from towns and require it to be 100% flat for capture.
- Town buildings stay flat for one hour.
- Increase base ack both in number and lethality to discourage vulching and capping.
- Ord bunkers and radar towers rebuild in 15 minutes.  So easy to destroy for a single fighter with great benefit for the attacking side.

By rendering a town defenseless, it will be up to actual players (air and ground) to defend it.
Airfields will be much tougher to cap, which will allow defenders a fighting chance.
Ack huggers can hug, as long as they don't mind you taking their base.
Vulchers can vulch, but will be shredded much quicker in the better ack.
Towns won't be so close to the base and there will be no protection over them except your own countrymen. 
Ords and hangars can still be flattened on a base, but it will be much safer done in bombers at altitude. 
 
Capturing the town is the only requirement to take a base.  Let's put the fight there.

[AKP]

I see what you are trying to do... and it has merit.  By making the base harder to cap/flatten... then the defenders have a chance to take off, get a little alt, and try and stave off the attackers more effectively.

However... one problem I see.  With a large group attacking... and attacking in a coordinated effort... any defenders shot down are going to be hard pressed to get back to the town in time to stop the capture.  Yes... attackers would face the same issue in getting back,  but that is an issue now... and in numbers they easily overcome that problem.

The one main advantage defenders have now, is that they can get back to the town to defend very quickly.  Meaning... as it should be... it takes less to defend a town and hold it, than it does to attack and take it.

I think that when the new version comes out, "base takers" are going to have to adopt new tactics as it is.  The pendulum is about to swing even more in favor of the defender with the mannable 88's armed with AP and AA.  I have been playing with them in the Beta... and they are downright lethal to aircraft.  4 at a large airfield... 3 at ports, vbases, and medium fields, and 2 at small fields.  Yes... they can be taken out with as much ease as a manned ack or 17lb gun... but you have to get close enough first. 

In addition... the GV's being able to hide easier in the next release... is going to make them the premier town defenders.  By the time an aircraft sees a wirble... it is already well within lethal range.  I think the "horde" is going to have to go back to school.

Lets wait and see how these new changes affect gameplay in a full arena setting before we reinvent the wheel.  One thing that has to happen... no matter what changes would be made... is that people need to stop thinking that "defending" is a waste of time.  If more players would actually defend when a horde is coming (and they arent that hard to spot) the horde wouldnt be as effective. 

Well... that's my thoughts anyway. 

[SpencAce]

 oh ya, i like the sound of that, i have always hated not being able to do anything to a town on my onw because it is to well defended

[Lusche]

Years ago we had a map with the towns that far removed from the airfields.


Many of them fell before the defenders even noticed what was going on. 

[guncrasher]

towns should be far enough for base not to be capped by same players are town but not far enough for town to fall undefended.  about 10-15 seconds flight time should be cool.  and not talking about from engine start.


I believe cal has the right idea here.


semp

#2 of 3

[thndregg]

Years ago we had a map with the towns that far removed from the airfields.


Many of them fell before the defenders even noticed what was going on. 

I remember that map. Annoying as hell.

[skorpion]

+1, but i think just 3-5 37mm's could defend the town. Leaving it completely undefended isnt made up with it having to be 100% down.

Good idea though.

[Tec]

Years ago we had a map with the towns that far removed from the airfields.


Many of them fell before the defenders even noticed what was going on. 

Yea it was that Frac 3 map IIRC, and it didn't work out so hot at all.

[SmokinLoon]

This would be a great thing, I think it would help out in a great many ways.  Unfortunately, to change the maps that drastically would mean a LOT of work I'm guessing.  It might be better to just keep the makers of the maps attention and ask them to produce a map... a winter map with towns away from the field.   

[PAKFRONT]

Seems that a linear battlefield is what players like.. People like a battle that pushes forward, then the enemy pushes back.. Obstacles to be overcome thru player coop, making different types of tactic or equipment needed, adding variety to the experience.. Variety of REASONS to fight!
I like the idea of,

Putting a VH in the town, and a Map Bunker on the Base..
Hardball road that connects the Base to Town to Spawn..
Vehicles pay an accurate movement cost by terrain and vehicle..

Sure you can take your Tiger the long way around, see ya tomorrow buddy!
Or you can come down the road to town, and learn where the Iron Crosses Grow..
But lighter faster vehicles could make wide swings for deep flank attacks.. (As was so)

Obstacles to be overcome on the main line of Advance..
Like roadblocks put in place by player M3/251 Engineer Vehicles..
Mines, lol.. (maybe a little TOO real huh, lol)

Small river, with Medium sized bridge, that will only hold Medium tanks..
But can be reinforced by Pioneers to hold heavy tanks..
(Tigers never moved too freely, and their lines of advance were carefully chosen)

Lesser bridges on the flanks to carry smaller vehicles for flanking moves..
Again that can be reinforced, or destroyed and rebuilt..

All the possible permutations of this are pretty obvious..
Variety being fun, the possibilities of engineers to alter the BATTLEFIELD ITSELF
installing obstacles or surmounting them, offer much to the game..

PAK  

[MK-84]

...and other hare-brained ideas:

Trying to find a way to allow defenders to get airborne without eliminating the will to steamroll -err attack.  The basic gist of it is to move the fight away from the airfields and to a location where there will be no ack hugging or vulching.  The way things are now, the attackers flatten and/or cap the field - eliminating the ability to fight back.  The idea of the game is to fight after all, not avoid it.

Here is a common battle ground on the Baltic map:

(Image removed from quote.)

The spawns allow roughly the same drive to the field as to the town.  GVers hate being bombed and will soon be enjoying a reduced icon visibility from the air.  With the current spawns,  there will be much more sneaking to airfields and vulching.  Quid pro quo, I say. 

This is my proposal for moving the towns and spawns away from the field:

(Image removed from quote.)

First, the towns get moved far away enough from the base so there is no base ack covering them.  Then friendly and enemy spawns are placed equidistant, on opposite sides of the towns.  This makes for a chance to actually fight in towns, tank to tank. 

A few other tidbits:
- Remove all ack from towns and require it to be 100% flat for capture.
- Town buildings stay flat for one hour.
- Increase base ack both in number and lethality to discourage vulching and capping.
- Ord bunkers and radar towers rebuild in 15 minutes.  So easy to destroy for a single fighter with great benefit for the attacking side.

By rendering a town defenseless, it will be up to actual players (air and ground) to defend it.
Airfields will be much tougher to cap, which will allow defenders a fighting chance.
Ack huggers can hug, as long as they don't mind you taking their base.
Vulchers can vulch, but will be shredded much quicker in the better ack.
Towns won't be so close to the base and there will be no protection over them except your own countrymen. 
Ords and hangars can still be flattened on a base, but it will be much safer done in bombers at altitude. 
 
Capturing the town is the only requirement to take a base.  Let's put the fight there.

How would I realistically up a GV to defend the down?

[Tyrannis]

Then people will complain that town was too far away for them to get too in time..

[Lusche]

Then people will complain that town was too far away for them to get too in time..

Which is a very valid 'complain'

When the radar on the base is down, you will have no idea if something is happening at the town. You see a darbar in the sector, maybe a few cons over the field explaining it.. that's all. Meanwhile some sneaky 110's are taking the town down without anyone noticing.

[The Fugitive]

A system message that says "such and such town under attack"

[Tilt]

 +1

I would leave AA in town to give its attackers something to over come whilst defenders are OTW.

All such towns should have one if not two defending GV spawns.

Attacking GV spawns should also  be town orientated.

If such towns had something like an SB mound that could act as an look out post it would be neat. (or is there a church spire where a look out  could be placed within town {an ungunned soft gun spawn?})

The town will flash as it does now when enemy are within range.

The previous map that tried this did not place defending GV spawns appropriately and NOE was easier then.