Author Topic: Cardiac arrest - how to fix :D  (Read 1055 times)

Offline MaSonZ

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Re: Cardiac arrest - how to fix :D
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2012, 01:10:27 PM »
Yup. Conventional CPR is intended to keep vital tissue oxygenated until help can arrive. Still no guarantee that the patient's heart could be restarted. your very right, but the chances are significantly increased.


That's what the British Heart Found says MaSonZ, I don't know why it is. if that is like the AMerican Heart Assoc. then the only thing I can think of is that the first heart attack is generally a "massive" heart attack...



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Offline nrshida

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Re: Cardiac arrest - how to fix :D
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2012, 01:24:35 PM »
Yup good point.
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Offline Angus

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Re: Cardiac arrest - how to fix :D
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2012, 04:19:10 PM »
if it is an un-witnessed cardiac arrest (no one saw it) if the ambulance can arrive is approximately 3 minutes and adequate CPR (Chest compressions, breaths and defibrilation) is given, those 9/10 not surviving change significantly. and the first heart attack? I'm not a doctor, but if it the first heart attack the heart is at its strongest point for the patient, meaning despite their medical history, the heart will never be the same strength again. a heart attack kills cardiac muscle tissue, this death of muscle is what makes the heart attack fatal. the less muscle there is to restart with the defib, the less muscle to keep it going when (Assuming it does) get restarted. I could go on for a lengthy explanation....but I wouldn't want to bore anyone.

Just a thought. My course was at a farmers school, and could it be a different point?
There is no chance in hell that the ambulance would be at "your spot" (my spot)  in 3 minutes, you'd rather make your bet on 30, and as my neighbours conditions are today (ice & snow) you'd be saying 1-2 hours.
Keep Vinnie pumping for an hour without aspiration, and the patient is dead. Eventually the pump itself will stop completely due to lack of oxygen.

Additionally, from the top of my head, - some 70% of those who have their first heart stroke survive.
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Offline nrshida

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Re: Cardiac arrest - how to fix :D
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2012, 04:44:02 PM »
Could it be that the 'Stayin Alive' beat compressions also aspirate the lungs, or is it possible to restore the heartbeat this way?

I was also confused about that but I heard about it first from Vinnie & you don't argue with Vinnie.  :uhoh

No Paramedics or Doctors on the forum?
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Offline Rob52240

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Re: Cardiac arrest - how to fix :D
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2012, 05:40:18 PM »
Compressions just help partially do what the diaphram normally does.  Even with a defibrillator, you can't restart a stopped heart.
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Offline sntslilhlpr6601

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Re: Cardiac arrest - how to fix :D
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2012, 09:38:10 PM »
I remember a while back hearing something about how people who tried to do cpr without a cert could get sued.

I've been scared of even thinking about trying something like that ever since (if I were ever in the situation).

Anyone know anything about that? If I see someone who's in trouble then I'll do what I can but my life and my mediocre bank account are priority 1.

Sucks that it's come to that, as I'm one of the few people who has already seen some crazy **** and wouldn't freeze up when encountered with a situation like this, but when you live in a country where you can get sued for anything and everything it kinda puts a damper on the whole "good samaritan" thing.

Offline MaSonZ

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Re: Cardiac arrest - how to fix :D
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2012, 09:58:00 PM »
Could it be that the 'Stayin Alive' beat compressions also aspirate the lungs, or is it possible to restore the heartbeat this way?

I was also confused about that but I heard about it first from Vinnie & you don't argue with Vinnie.  :uhoh

No Paramedics or Doctors on the forum?
just finished EMT-Basic courses, does this count? going to school next year for paramedic though. been doing EMS for a few years too, can give a little knowledge.

Compressions just help partially do what the diaphram normally does.  Even with a defibrillator, you can't restart a stopped heart.

I must ask, why do rescuers do the compressions DIRECTLY over the heart if its to push air through the body? the hemoglobin in your red blood cells carry oxygen, without that blood moving the oxygen doesnt circulate. Going to the defib point, the heart is ran on an electrical charge (what??), and I'm drawing a blank on how that charge is started, but thats a moot point. the point is this: a heart attack occurs when the charge is interrupted, while the charge is interrupted the cardiac cells die until it is started again. you may ask at this point, how do the cells die so quick if its a quick interruption? that is called a heart murmur. a prolonged interruption is called Cardiac arrest, which is when the spark needs to be jump started. think of this way if its easier for you: your car battery dies. the car battery is like your berating heart. saying the "dead" heart can not be jump started using a defib is like saying jumper cables wont start a car. results arent as reliable as jumping a car, but same principle. if the defib isnt to restart the heart, and the compressions are not to circulate oxygenated blood to profuse the cells, then what is the sense in doing chest compressions or shocking with a defib?

Just a thought. My course was at a farmers school, and could it be a different point?
There is no chance in hell that the ambulance would be at "your spot" (my spot)  in 3 minutes, you'd rather make your bet on 30, and as my neighbours conditions are today (ice & snow) you'd be saying 1-2 hours.
Keep Vinnie pumping for an hour without aspiration, and the patient is dead. Eventually the pump itself will stop completely due to lack of oxygen.

Additionally, from the top of my head, - some 70% of those who have their first heart stroke survive.
it probably was a different class you did. I did my first CPR course in my first responder cert course 3 years ago, and most recently i did the EMT CPR course during my class. there ares slight differences, but same principle.
Unless the ambulance crew happened to be there at the timme of ehart attack, your right, the ambulance will seldom, if ever e there in 3 minutes. but the every day joe shmoe must have some knowledge of chest compressions, and a slightly brighter one may have some knowledge about the oxygenation needed for CPR. an intelligent dispatcher will do what he was trained to do though when someone calls 9-11, instruct the caller through basic CPR until the ambulance arrives. this is the 3 minute point I was making. sorry for not making that clear.  :salute

I'll check my post in the morning, make sure i gave the right info. 11 at night and i was doing things from 7:30AM to 6:45PM. body isnt used to it.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 10:06:51 PM by MaSonZ »
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Offline -tronski-

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Re: Cardiac arrest - how to fix :D
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2012, 10:07:23 PM »
My last snr first aid recertification was 30 pumps per breath - but dont bother with the breathing if your alone, or dont have a sealing mouth mask.
We were told your better off sending someone spare to grab one the auto defib machines off the wall and utilise that (if it'll work for that person) because realistically we're only trying to give the ARFF more time to respond

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Offline MaSonZ

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Re: Cardiac arrest - how to fix :D
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2012, 10:10:28 PM »
My last snr first aid recertification was 30 pumps per breath - but dont bother with the breathing if your alone, or dont have a sealing mouth mask.
We were told your better off sending someone spare to grab one the auto defib machines off the wall and utilise that (if it'll work for that person) because realistically we're only trying to give the ARFF more time to respond

 Trosnky
30 conpressions, 2 breaths now. albeit not recommended as you said without the mask, some oxygen is better then none. as long as you have pediatric pads for children/toddlers and adult  pads for teenagers up (until the elderly, you go back to pedi pads i believe) then the defib should be fine. a properly organized defib should have a set of pedi pads and adult pads.
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Offline Rob52240

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Re: Cardiac arrest - how to fix :D
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2012, 10:49:36 PM »
The defib just knocks the heart back into a regular beat.  Nobody has ever come back from a true flatline.

The electrical impulses that run the heart come from the brain.

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2 weeks as an EMT (hated dealing with medical issue patients, trauma didn't bother me for some reason)
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Offline nrshida

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Re: Cardiac arrest - how to fix :D
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2012, 01:53:30 AM »
I remember a while back hearing something about how people who tried to do cpr without a cert could get sued.

I believe there was a case in America some time ago when a person with a First Aid certificate was sued. We discussed it during our course. I think if you followed your training and acted responsibly you ought to be safe from legal action. I can't imagine this would factor into my decision to help or not. Usually too busy identifying who needs help & in what order.

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Offline Rob52240

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Re: Cardiac arrest - how to fix :D
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2012, 03:22:21 AM »
Good samaritan laws typically covers anyone who isn't being paid.  Even with certification here, if you're off the clock they can't sew you unless you unless they can prove you meant to do harm.
If I had a gun with 3 bullets and I was locked in a room with Bin Laden, Hitler, Saddam and Zipp...  I would shoot Zipp 3 times.

Offline MaSonZ

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Re: Cardiac arrest - how to fix :D
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2012, 08:04:53 AM »
The defib just knocks the heart back into a regular beat.  Nobody has ever come back from a true flatline.

The electrical impulses that run the heart come from the brain.

10 years National Ski Patrol, 3 of them as a director.
2 weeks as an EMT (hated dealing with medical issue patients, trauma didn't bother me for some reason)
what is a true flat line?

I am not saying your medical training is/was wrong, but if they taught you these things when you took the classes, it must of been quiet some time ago.
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Offline Rob52240

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Re: Cardiac arrest - how to fix :D
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2012, 09:13:19 AM »
True flat line is exactly what it sounds like.  When the heart has stopped beating completely.  No AED will deliver a shock if it doesn't measure any type of heartbeat.
If I had a gun with 3 bullets and I was locked in a room with Bin Laden, Hitler, Saddam and Zipp...  I would shoot Zipp 3 times.

Offline MaSonZ

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Re: Cardiac arrest - how to fix :D
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2012, 12:20:45 PM »
True flat line is exactly what it sounds like.  When the heart has stopped beating completely.  No AED will deliver a shock if it doesn't measure any type of heartbeat.
an automated aed you mean? i dont know much about the different heart beats, however i know the paramedics have manual aeds can scan for rhythems, and select the rhythem they want to shock. are you speaking on a basics defibrilator, or a defib of any type?
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