Author Topic: F6F Hellcat  (Read 15449 times)

Offline SectorNine50

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #60 on: January 12, 2012, 06:30:54 PM »
Yes, but this is something that doesn't come out in Aces High, which is why I don't understand why people bring it up.


That would be like me saying that the M4A3 is arguably better than the Tiger I in aces high because the Tiger I guzzled gas and was more prone to break downs (we have neither fuel nor random break downs for GV's in AH).

When you look at it objectively, the F6F is still a very durable plane in AH, which is why it's brought up.  It may not be on par with the P-47, but I consider it on-par with the F4U's.
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #61 on: January 12, 2012, 06:38:41 PM »
Meh, not even quite to the F4U's, IMO. At least not if you don't count the (slighly) higher tendency for oil hits in the F4U.

Close, but not quite there. Probably beause the F4U's are perfectly capable of flying with 90% of the control surfaces and 1/2 a wing missing  :bolt:.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline Shuckins

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2012, 10:12:53 AM »
What HTC did was restrict head movement too much. You can't get get your cartoon head anywhere near the canopy glass... Having had the opportunity to sit in an F6F-5 a few times, I know that if you get right up against the glass you can see better to the rear than the AH F6F-5.

Yep.  That would be my take on the problem with Hellcat rear visibility in-game as well.

Offline Greebo

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2012, 02:10:49 PM »
Probably a good opportunity to dig this out again.......


Offline smoe

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #64 on: January 17, 2012, 10:15:11 AM »
This, not mentioning that the majority of Japanese pilots around that time had far, far less experience and worse training than the German pilots.

I agree with EskimoJoe, the Hellcat probably shot down a lot of planes in kamikaze mode and a lot of noobs.

Offline Oldman731

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #65 on: January 17, 2012, 11:07:07 AM »
I agree with EskimoJoe, the Hellcat probably shot down a lot of planes in kamikaze mode and a lot of noobs.

Yup.  Like the P-51 in the ETO.

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Offline Shuckins

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #66 on: January 17, 2012, 11:10:09 AM »
I agree with EskimoJoe, the Hellcat probably shot down a lot of planes in kamikaze mode and a lot of noobs.

After 1943 the quality of Axis pilots in both the ETO and PTO degraded severely.  Guenther Rall stated that the replacements he received at that time had a life expectancy of 10 hours of mission time.

What you stated is true of not just the Hellcat but also the F4U, P-38, Thunderbolt, Mustang and every other Allied fighter that engaged the enemy after 1943.

Offline fuzeman

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #67 on: January 17, 2012, 11:50:04 AM »
You don't really help your arguments when you make a statement and then in the next sentence contradict your first statement.
Far too many, if not most, people on this Board post just to say something opposed to posting when they have something to say.

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Offline Widewing

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #68 on: January 17, 2012, 12:07:14 PM »
After 1943 the quality of Axis pilots in both the ETO and PTO degraded severely.  Guenther Rall stated that the replacements he received at that time had a life expectancy of 10 hours of mission time.

What you stated is true of not just the Hellcat but also the F4U, P-38, Thunderbolt, Mustang and every other Allied fighter that engaged the enemy after 1943.


Except that Rall was referring to pilots coming into service from middle 1944 and beyond. Until the Allied bombing priority shifted to the German synthetic fuel industry, Luftwaffe pilots were receiving adequate training time. Once fuel became a serious issue, after May of 1944, training time gradually became cut back.

This becomes difficult to quantify for many reasons. Thus, it is often written about in general terms.

Japan's situation was different altogether. Many of the IJN pilots who lost their ships at Midway survived, being transported home on Cruisers and Destroyers once rescued. The next major depletion occurred in June of 1944 (the Great Turkey Shoot). Japanese Army pilots were slowly ground down. By the fall of 1944, many of the better pilots had been killed. Like Germany, fuel was becoming an issue (submarine warfare had shut down oil imports to a fraction of that needed).

Those American and Commonwealth aces who attained their status in either theater towards the end of the respective war, did have a much easier time of it than those who preceded them. In February thru April of 1945, F6F and F4U pilots feasted on trainees and suicide pilots who could not or would not defend themselves. Yet, those flying combat missions over Japan in the summer of '45 ran into a higher quality of pilots, as Japan hoarded their few remaining higher end pilots on the home islands for what they thought would be a final stand.
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Offline Shuckins

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #69 on: January 17, 2012, 05:32:24 PM »
Well...perhaps I wasn't specific enough:

"After 1943 the quality of Axis pilots in both the ETO and PTO degraded severely."

Widewing...wouldn't you agree that the situation for both Germany and Japan was basically similar?  Attrition rates were staggering...and by the fall of '44 the level of training for Luftwaffe pilots was little better than it was for the Japanese?

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #70 on: January 17, 2012, 05:44:59 PM »
It was a choice between training the pilots to the point of having a decent chance at surviving combat, training them to the point of being able to survive combat but getting but at a much much MUCH slower pace.... or getting pilots into combat somewhere close to on time and with the fuel they need to fight.

Germany and japan made the best choices (about pilot training) they could at the time. It was litterally a choice between getting poorly flown aircraft into the air, not not getting any aircraft up at all.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline Widewing

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #71 on: January 17, 2012, 06:34:12 PM »
Well...perhaps I wasn't specific enough:

"After 1943 the quality of Axis pilots in both the ETO and PTO degraded severely."

Widewing...wouldn't you agree that the situation for both Germany and Japan was basically similar?  Attrition rates were staggering...and by the fall of '44 the level of training for Luftwaffe pilots was little better than it was for the Japanese?

I absolutely agree. Attrition and a lack of fuel combined to limit the quality of training and the resulting pilots....
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Widewing

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Offline Slade

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #72 on: January 18, 2012, 08:38:07 AM »
Quote
I think the "new" cockpit view thing is over-emphasized.  The Hellcat's view is still excellent given its razorback fuselage.

I disagree.  With mine (and many others) limited skillset I find visibility to be a huge factor.  Just a little better visibility in the F6F would go a long way.

That being said, the F6F is a very capable plane.  Fun to fly.  Dives great.  Good guns.  Turns surprising well in many instances.  

I always feel like I have climbed a mountain when I shoot down Greebo in his F6F.  Co-alt in any plane against Greebo's F6F = death to me.  He is so good in that thing, every time I see an F6F I think "I wonder if that is Greebo" and adjust accordingly.  He is the only player and corresponding plane that I need to factor that in.  :salute
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 08:46:33 AM by Slade »
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Offline MAINER

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #73 on: January 18, 2012, 10:31:54 AM »
One of the things I love doing in a hellcat is picking a fight with a P-51  :devil Most of the time they will run but every once in a while they will get into a turn fight with you and thats where the fun begins  :cool:
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Offline alpini13

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Re: F6F Hellcat
« Reply #74 on: January 18, 2012, 10:39:09 AM »
   Are the kill death ratios here a joke??   remember a few things...in some theaters pilots shared kills without firing a shot(ask pappy boyington) and in some theaters us forces counted aircraft on the dround that were shot as kills.....even is they were decoys or parts aircraft in non flyable condition........and third...remember at the end of the war an enemy pilot facing overwhelming numbers could simply bail out if he received any damage and be flying later that same day...that is if a U.S. pilot didnt kill him in his chute....whereas the U.s pilot would struggle to keep his plane up and make it back to base istaed of being captured.....and so kill death ration really mneans NOTHING.  take two equal pilots...one on one...both flying their respective planes to their strengths....and you have a pretty even fight..........lets not dilute ourselves to looking at paper figures and thinking we know which plane was best or which pilot was best...................rememb er in ww1 richtofen had a large number of kills that were recon planes or boom and zoom kils(not all)...................Voss killed most of his planes(most fighters) dogfighting against superior numbers of enemy fighters........at yet richtofen is considered the most amazing fighter pilot in that conflict...ww2 had the same thing going on...prooganda....and the winners write the history,lol