Arado guns

[dirtdart]

Very interesting. I wonder what data was used for our current version?

Speaking on the forward guns.... A funny thing happened to me the first time I flew one. I saw the guns and did not realize they fired to the rear. I celebrated as if I had discovered the atom in my new found poor mans 262. So I get up and running ... Line up on some chap, gently squeeze... The sound of cannon fire and nothing.  What the deuce?

[lyric1]

Very interesting. I wonder what data was used for our current version?

Speaking on the forward guns.... A funny thing happened to me the first time I flew one. I saw the guns and did not realize they fired to the rear. I celebrated as if I had discovered the atom in my new found poor mans 262. So I get up and running ... Line up on some chap, gently squeeze... The sound of cannon fire and nothing.  What the deuce?

  No idea most likely books & documents available at the time of it's inclusion in the game.
Lot of new stuff printed since then.

Interesting thing I found tonight it was not the first time the periscope was tried in combat.

This also tells me a lot as to how the the Periscope worked on the 234.

Also that they didn't use it much as it didn't seem to work on this DO-217.

[lyric1]

After finding the information on the DO-217B Periscope & how with the aid of it's mirrors gave the pilot the illusion while looking through it he was looking forward at his target.



I think this is how the views would have looked some what from the pilots perspective if he had rear guns to shoot with on the B model & most likely the view from the C model.

In this thread http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,305406.0.html All evidence of rear pointing guns on the AR-234'S shows it was rearward facing & downward.

From the blueprint drawings I think it was somewhere at about one & a half to approximately two & a half degrees.

Interestingly it is about the same angle as our AHII AR-234-B guns except in game ours are upward facing.

So the pilots knew the angle of their rear guns & all the views they would have looking through that periscope. I would assume they would have had there cross hairs on the sites set at a specific range based off what they would have seen & the 20mm ballistics.

All the AR-234-B's made I think would have had a rearview through the periscope like this below.  There was no need for a forward shooting view through the periscope since he was not shooting with rearward guns very similar to the ME-110 Periscope view. The only thing he needed to know was there some one behind him & where.













I had a squadmate put his Mosquito XVI in a position that most likely the AR-234 pilot would need to have to shoot at an enemy. In this case the plane is at 600 yards away.



Now imagine one eye is closed the other is on the periscope & now this is what you will see as your new forward view to track & shoot an aircraft just as you would in any conventional fighter.   Or there abouts.










I would say if rear guns were ever to be used pilots would try & avoid at all costs getting in a situation to have to use them.

234 pilots would always have to be higher & ahead of the target to get a firing solution I think this was enough of a reason just to do away with them all together.

Why not no allied plane could catch them at full speed.

[PR3D4TOR]

Now imagine one eye is closed the other is on the periscope & now this is what you will see as your new forward view to track & shoot an aircraft just as you would in any conventional fighter.   Or there abouts.

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean here. The mirrored, upside-down, image makes it much more intuitive for the pilot. Pull the stick and the target moves down, left/right rudder moves the target the way you'd expect. The tail and rest of the world may look wonky, but if you focus on the sight and the target then the sight/target react to control inputs intuitively to a pilot.

[lyric1]

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean here. The mirrored, upside-down, image makes it much more intuitive for the pilot. Pull the stick and the target moves down, left/right rudder moves the target the way you'd expect. The tail and rest of the world may look wonky, but if you focus on the sight and the target then the sight/target react to control inputs intuitively to a pilot.

  I believe so.

[mtnman]

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean here. The mirrored, upside-down, image makes it much more intuitive for the pilot. Pull the stick and the target moves down, left/right rudder moves the target the way you'd expect. The tail and rest of the world may look wonky, but if you focus on the sight and the target then the sight/target react to control inputs intuitively to a pilot.

Except the trajectory of the bullets would be reversed.  They would appear to fall "up".

[lyric1]

Except the trajectory of the bullets would be reversed.  They would appear to fall "up".

[dirtdart]

The JU-288 had a pretty interesting set up as well for the rear guns.  The pilot did not aim the guns like the 217 (what the hell were they thinking), the rear gunner did.  But, it is a mechanical interface between the gunner and the guns that is extraordinary.  I am a bit of a nostalgic tech geek, and anything put together with slide rules and guts is pretty cool in my book. 

I understand now from your postings that indeed the 234B had no such guns.  It would indeed be sad because the list of aircraft who have made craters in the ground trying to sneak up on Arados is indeed impressive, especially if flying with tracers off  .

There is another one for you to tackle Krusty, on realism, how many air to air fights did the guys not run tracers?  Is it possible to delink the 1-5 tracer, sure, but did it ever happen? 

Someone mentioned "where do you draw the line?"  I guess that is for another thread.

<S> lyric

[AWwrgwy]

There is another one for you to tackle Krusty, on realism, how many air to air fights did the guys not run tracers?  Is it possible to delink the 1-5 tracer, sure, but did it ever happen? 

Someone mentioned "where do you draw the line?"  I guess that is for another thread.

<S> lyric

Tracers were often, but not always, pilot preference.

I know the some in the 56th FG used 5 tracers only near the last 50 rounds to denote a low ammo state.



wrongway

[lyric1]

Some light reading.

http://www.4shared.com/office/yJjgC6-w/ARADO_AR_234_DER_ERSTE_STRAHLB.html