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Author Topic: DID 110 EVER HAVE CANNON IN THE PROP HUB  (Read 1097 times)

Offline bangsbox

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DID 110 EVER HAVE CANNON IN THE PROP HUB
« on: January 24, 2012, 11:30:08 PM »
i have seen models and film footage of 110s with cannon prop hubs. is it just for show/ same hub for 109 and it saves time for manufacture. or is it really a gun?
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Offline Karnak

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Re: DID 110 EVER HAVE CANNON IN THE PROP HUB
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2012, 11:38:14 PM »
No, they never had motorkannon on Bf110s.
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Offline bangsbox

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Re: DID 110 EVER HAVE CANNON IN THE PROP HUB
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2012, 12:53:44 AM »
so it was just for making prop hubs faster?
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Offline Butcher

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Re: DID 110 EVER HAVE CANNON IN THE PROP HUB
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2012, 01:21:09 AM »
Quote from: bangsbox on January 24, 2012, 11:30:08 PM
i have seen models and film footage of 110s with cannon prop hubs. is it just for show/ same hub for 109 and it saves time for manufacture. or is it really a gun?

Can you show these models or film? I have never heard of this.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: DID 110 EVER HAVE CANNON IN THE PROP HUB
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2012, 02:06:35 AM »
Just look for pictures of a 110. Most of them have a spinner that looks like it could be the nose piece for a nasty cannon. Its possible this is just a fitting for an engine warming device (PTO) similar to those the Russians used.

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Offline Charge

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Re: DID 110 EVER HAVE CANNON IN THE PROP HUB
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2012, 02:30:09 AM »
He means the open hubs in 110s up to 110F with DB601, not seen in 110Gs with DB605.

DB601:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-360-2095-23%2C_Flugzeuge_Messerschmitt_Me_110.jpg
DB605:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ME-110G-2_at_RAF_Hendon.jpg

I don't recall if they ever inserted such hubs as in 109E7s which covered the hub opening.

http://ww2total.com/WW2/Weapons/War-Planes/Fighter-Planes/German/Bf-109/images-Me-109-E/Bf109E-7_Leningrad1942_JG5-800.JPG

"Its possible this is just a fitting for an engine warming device (PTO) similar to those the Russians used."

Russians did use the hub tube to start the engines, probably saving the weight of the starting system. You can distinguish these hubs as they have special grooves for starting crank.



-C+
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 02:40:45 AM by Charge »
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: DID 110 EVER HAVE CANNON IN THE PROP HUB
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2012, 03:50:04 AM »
Good point but I think all of the planes that are equipped like that also have starters. I think the idea was for a cold weather fix to starting problems. Jim Dale of the Palm Springs P-63 team explained that the PTO was for that anyway and I think he knows his facts on that.
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: DID 110 EVER HAVE CANNON IN THE PROP HUB
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2012, 05:20:25 AM »
The 109E and 110C shared the same power-eggs and had the same spinners. Due to vibration problems few if any 109E's flew operationally with hub guns. Later mark 109E's and 110C/D/E's plugged the blast tube in the spinner to make it more aerodynamic.




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Offline Charge

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Re: DID 110 EVER HAVE CANNON IN THE PROP HUB
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2012, 07:15:42 AM »
"Later mark 109E's and 110C/D/E's plugged the blast tube in the spinner to make it more aerodynamic."

Interesting, that is the probably the first picture I ever saw of hub covers on DB601 in ME110. I was ready to say that they were rarely if ever installed on 110s.

-C+
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Offline Krusty

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Re: DID 110 EVER HAVE CANNON IN THE PROP HUB
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2012, 09:11:05 AM »
Just because there's a hole there doesn't mean there ever was a gun or intent for a gun. P-51s have holes in the spinner, Fw190As do too, and so do many other aircraft. Sometimes it's aerodynamic, sometimes it's just practical (access point for cold starting shaft like the truck picture above, or a place to get a tool in there to remove the spinner, etc) for maintenance purposes.
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Offline bangsbox

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Re: DID 110 EVER HAVE CANNON IN THE PROP HUB
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2012, 10:24:51 PM »



here a pick of one ive seen others too but not all of them do.
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Offline bangsbox

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Re: DID 110 EVER HAVE CANNON IN THE PROP HUB
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2012, 11:23:50 PM »
Quote from: Butcher on January 25, 2012, 01:21:09 AM
Can you show these models or film? I have never heard of this.

i posted a pic and there are many other pics you can see
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Offline Butcher

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Re: DID 110 EVER HAVE CANNON IN THE PROP HUB
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2012, 11:45:40 PM »
Interesting I never noticed it, nice fine.
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Offline BaDkaRmA158Th

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Re: DID 110 EVER HAVE CANNON IN THE PROP HUB
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2012, 04:52:11 AM »
Air intakes, or perhaps a area to pull bolts to remove the spinner.


But im going for air intake.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: DID 110 EVER HAVE CANNON IN THE PROP HUB
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2012, 01:16:35 PM »
No, not an air intake. Just a hole. The aerodynamics weren't really all that draggy. Compared to the "capped" spinners the difference was all of 1-2 mph I think. I think part of it was a German cultural thing. You look at a lot of their prewar designs, even those with no hope of a central prop gun, etc, and you'll find a lot of blunt props. More a throwback to 1930s times, and older prop design, I think. They moved past it, but it took time.
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