Author Topic: Somewhat dissapointed  (Read 1976 times)

Online Devil 505

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Re: Somewhat dissapointed
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2012, 10:02:18 PM »
This is what you said:
A73 was a known target, and was hit by at lest 50+ 190 jabos and 109 escorts flying in large groups of perhaps 20 ships.

      50+ 190
      20   109
+   20   109
_________
=   90+ Fighters
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Offline cohofly

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Re: Somewhat dissapointed
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2012, 10:19:20 PM »
Sorry that you put the wrong emph asis on the wrong syl ables.
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Offline 442w30

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Re: Somewhat dissapointed
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2012, 10:25:36 PM »
You faced Kommando Nowotny (11 - 190A-5's), 9Giap (6 - 190A-5's), and III/JG11 (12 Heavy 190A-8's).  And they had a simple plan that they stuck to.

You did fine.

EDIT: as my esteemed colleague posted as I was as well...Doo is correct.  III/JG11 never fired a shot at enemy aircraft.  The field was 100% intact when we arrived.  We left it...somewhat altered.


Disappointed fellow, Stampf is correct about the force distribution over 73. I should know, I wrote the orders.   Part of your problem was the 3 groups I assigned to assault A73.  Three outstanding squads, two of which are dedicated Luftwaffe squads.  The planning that was behind my thought was that KN and Dantoo's guys would simply dominate wherever they went.  It's what they do...   

Great job and thanks to ALL the Axis squads. I thought were incredible all night, all over the map. 
Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time

"The plural of anecdote is no data."- statistician's axiom

Offline Poppy

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Re: Somewhat dissapointed
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2012, 10:37:16 PM »
 :airplane:Axis did a great job . . again . . <S> All involved did a great job last night (those of us with what we had), every frame for that matter so no matter what it was fun. After calming down from a good ole fashoned bellybutton whoopen . . again . . we're kinda pissed but laughing about it, so there are some issues on 'our' side we need to work on. Big deal, we'll work it out, then we'll work it out with you guys. Personally I was worthless in frame 3 thanks to a virus in my game computer so I was merely a target for you guys flying with a 3 frame rate on my grandsons lap top and I got in uniform as we launched with no sound, I chipped my teeth gritten them. My squadies and I are respectful flyers so cut em some slack with those little digs and over exadurations on a guestimate that was within a dozen, that's not that far off when it sure looked like a hundred of you vulchers over us. It's all good brutha's, peace...
Poppy XO -55FG/38FS-
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Offline Poppy

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Re: Somewhat dissapointed
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2012, 10:52:13 PM »
spikes I <S> your avitar  :O
Poppy XO -55FG/38FS-
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Offline Spikes

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Re: Somewhat dissapointed
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2012, 11:01:04 PM »
Sorry that you put the wrong emph asis on the wrong syl ables.
What Devil said were not syllables, they are words.
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Offline perdue3

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Re: Somewhat dissapointed
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2012, 11:04:05 PM »

Disappointed fellow, Stampf is correct about the force distribution over 73. I should know, I wrote the orders.   Part of your problem was the 3 groups I assigned to assault A73.  Three outstanding squads, two of which are dedicated Luftwaffe squads.  The planning that was behind my thought was that KN and Dantoo's guys would simply dominate wherever they went.  It's what they do...   

Great job and thanks to ALL the Axis squads. I thought were incredible all night, all over the map. 
>

I appreciate the compliment. Whoever we were running into had their work cut out.  :salute
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Offline cohofly

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Re: Somewhat dissapointed
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2012, 11:27:57 PM »
Spikes, what I said in the OP were words too, not my fault that some cant comprehend what they read. Then make matters worse by continuing with same  line of thinking, when it had been stated by several including me, that I was wrong with my numbers in the OP.
Nuff Said
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Offline Molsman

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Re: Somewhat dissapointed
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2012, 12:27:42 AM »
Quote
The field was 100% intact when we arrived.  We left it...somewhat altered.


As in altered and from the Almighty Black Sabbath song "War Pigs" In the Fields the Bodies Burning (bodies not burning by JG-11 this time around but by our fine Escorts)We altered the field's as  JG-11 was tired of the of the pretty looking landscape(and according to order's we preceded and had to alter A73 with flames a blazing and field guns down even tho JG11 was not involved with the massive carnage of fighters down this time around We Came, We Saw, we Kicked some buildings Butt's and Kudos goes out to the fighters who cleared the Way for us to make our mission possible. I am sorry the Defenders were short handed but you also have to go back and think of all the time's Axis have been short handed on base defense but we did the best we could with the numbers in the past and Allies have to do the best they can with their numbers. CiC's have the worse jobs with planning and all what makes FSO so great is the close battles and fights we all encounter no matter who wins or lose's (even tho winning is great)

The Above comments are not reflect towards my squad's aspect of the frame just the Quote about "altered" but just my opinions.


Salute All
Crazy8s



disclaimer this is not meant to defer from my squad aspect's or the view of a CM just the every day view of an avid player of FSO




« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 02:53:26 AM by Molsman »
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Offline jededii

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Re: Somewhat dissapointed
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2012, 05:39:44 AM »
Ya i guess what he means is its dam stupid to attack 20 190s with 1 to 4 ac when it should be in mass and whoever the allied general is he should have his buthole kicked for sending us in that way time and time again.

All 3 CiCs did a good job in my opinion under difficult circumstances. We had 11 different a/c with minimums and maximums and other rules restrictions so ya we were spread thin in all 3 frames. The BUFFS needed at least some Fighter protection at the expense of Base Defense sqns. I could go on and on about this but you lose some and you win some.  :salute
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Offline Shifty

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Re: Somewhat dissapointed
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2012, 10:01:51 AM »
17 Allied fighters encountered 17 Axis fighters over A73 before the Jabos even arrived.
The Axis pilots fought with much better coordination and teamwork. Nothing fancy nothing
underhanded and nothing the Allied CIC could do about it. The fight started on even terms
and we got thumped. Thats about all there is to it..

JG-11"Black Hearts"...nur die Stolzen, nur die Starken

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Offline SlipKnt

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Re: Somewhat dissapointed
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2012, 10:11:37 AM »
What it simply comes down to is simple objective planning and squad communication at the squad / base objective level.  The scenario described in defense at A73 patrolling in 4 ships is destined to get overwhelmed by a concentrated attack / fighter sweep.  Even if you had altitude, you are facing (for argument's sake) 12 to 17 planes sweeping in.  By the time you realize what is happening, the other 4 ships are trying to collapse to the airfield only to see many dots over target.  If you don't realize this is a fighter sweep and start looking for Jabos, you face losing altitude with Jabos coming in right on top of you.    

With up to 17 defenders, you would want to concentrate your defense enmasse.  The only way to accomplish this is to coordinate this between the other defending squads in the days prior to FSO and even possibly train together in the DA or in a custom arena.  Properly setting up patrol CAP can be done with multiple squads as long as it is coordinated in advance.  Every week, I always reach out to squads we may potentially work with for this very reason.  Mission success.

It is obvious to me that Axis coordinated their attack and worked together well to accomplish their objective.  FSO can be frustrating if you spend close to an hour flying around only to get your plane shot out from under you in the first developing minutes of the fight.  It happens to all of us who participate in FSO.

I don't take offense to this thread at all.  I think it is a good learning tool for future missions in FSO.  If you receive an email from me after we receive orders, please respond.  You now know that I am working to coordinate success in FSO!   :devil

 :salute
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Offline Poppy

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Re: Somewhat dissapointed
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2012, 10:23:01 AM »
<S> SlipKnt . .  well put :salute
Poppy XO -55FG/38FS-
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Offline perdue3

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Re: Somewhat dissapointed
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2012, 10:55:50 AM »
17 Allied fighters encountered 17 Axis fighters over A73 before the Jabos even arrived.
The Axis pilots fought with much better coordination and teamwork. Nothing fancy nothing
underhanded and nothing the Allied CIC could do about it. The fight started on even terms
and we got thumped. Thats about all there is to it..

Perfect, great post Shifty. Whole thread can end here.
C.O. Kommando Nowotny 

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Offline Big Rat

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Re: Somewhat dissapointed
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2012, 11:38:23 AM »
One of the great things about FSO is that each is a learning experience.  We learn something every time out.  Currently we are still trying to mold together as a unit and are working for that.  When I joined VF-17 less then a year ago, we were a 5-7 squad, this next FSO were a 16-21, that's a lot of growing pains even for a fairly veteran squad that we have.  FSO certainly tends to show a squads weaknesses with alarming regularity.  The key is learning and adapting :aok

 :salute
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When you think the fight might be going bad, it already has.
Becoming one with the Hog, is to become one with Greatness, VF-17 XO & training officer BigRat