Author Topic: So this is a little scary  (Read 1990 times)

Offline dedalos

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Re: So this is a little scary
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2012, 08:54:50 AM »
*cough* Somebody *cough* oversteered and accelerated.  The car either senced the loss of traction and that is why it deployed the airbags at such a relatively low impact, or it's just designed to do so at that speed and such an abrupt stop.


 :confused:
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Offline icepac

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Re: So this is a little scary
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2012, 09:23:27 AM »
Dang......we had a "driving range" where our two driver's education teachers sat like tennis judges on chairs under umbrellas and kept an eye on what was going on.

We were 4 deep in 1976 cutlass supremes with a 403 engine.....in close proximity to 5 other identical models also filled with 4 students each.

Nobody ever wrecked into another car but more than a few "rockfords" were performed.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: So this is a little scary
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2012, 10:09:28 AM »
There is a youtube video going around of a 5th gen camaro drifting. He is not smooth and throws the car back and forth..... the bags deploy.
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Offline Babalonian

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Re: So this is a little scary
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2012, 04:18:22 PM »
What you refer to as airbag sensor are really deceleration sensor. A mere impact on one sensor will not activate a modern SRS(Suplemental restrain system). An impact sensor works like a switch activated at a set Acceleration force (G). A hit like a tire hitting your bumper will hardly decelerate your car. Thus the SRS will not trigger. Even a direct impact to a front sensor will not trigger it. There are redundant trigger system built in these devices. A front SRS system will usually comprise 2 front crash sensor mounted on or near the corners of the car and a center airbag sensor usually mounted inside the car under the central console. For the SRS to trigger airbags deployment, you got to have at least 2 sensor trigger, including the center airbag. Also, modern SRS are armed only at speed exceeding 15-20 MPH. All in all, even a direct hit to a sensor would not trigger the airbags.

The way many of these sensor are built is a a simple steel cylinder stuck to a magnet. When the sensor(and the car along with it) is decelerated abruptly, the inertia of the steel cylinder cause it to unsitck from the magnet and make contact with 2 leads inside the assembly, closing the signal circuit.

(Image removed from quote.)
magnet type sensor

(Image removed from quote.)
spring type sensor

You can clearly see why a hit on the sensor would not cause is to be triggered unless there is tremendous deformation(usually not experienced during light impact).

 :salute

Very informative, but even with that diagram I don't understand (yet) how the spring types mechanicaly function (at least reliabley), lol. 

I do understand there are differnt types of sensors, years ago when I read up on it I read they had impact/crumple sensors (detecting structural "changes") and deacceleration sensors (now you're moving - now you're not).  I believe the center one that barely got missed in my incident was an impact/crumple variety sensor, in addition to two other similar ones located around the front lamps/corners.  The two other sensors around those same forward positions were of another variety, possibley deaccelration.  I was aware after researching, even if the front center-most sensor directly took the impact, that it requires at least one additional trigger, possibley more, including a confirmed triggering from a deacceleration sensor.

But it just adds to the curiosity of why they deployed in Raptor's situation.  When researching after my incident I concluded a number of things need to line up for airbags (or any SRS) to deploy, they don't jsut happen randomly.

:confused:

 :banana:

(Do I need to rewrite that because it's too confusing of a mess, or did I miss the part where he said the curb hit the car sitting in the parking lot?)


There is a youtube video going around of a 5th gen camaro drifting. He is not smooth and throws the car back and forth..... the bags deploy.

I'm curious, anyone got a link?  :lol
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 04:20:47 PM by Babalonian »
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Offline bagrat

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Re: So this is a little scary
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2012, 05:05:38 PM »
who needs driver school when there's forza... :D
jk wish more people had to hydroplane and slide in gravel to get a license, here it seems like all you gotta do is not be drunk when you go to get one.
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: So this is a little scary
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2012, 05:20:52 PM »
Drifting camaro airbag deployment............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpL4VwhYSE8
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Offline Babalonian

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Re: So this is a little scary
« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2012, 05:41:13 PM »
who needs driver school when there's forza... :D
jk wish more people had to hydroplane and slide in gravel to get a license, here it seems like all you gotta do is not be drunk when you go to get one.

That's my take on it, wasn't that long ago I earned my own, but still - if you passed 100-questions mulitple-choice, don't show up drunk for your behind-the-wheel evaluation, and show them your original BC, SS card and a piece of paper with any insurance company's letterhead and scribbled in crayon saying you have insurance - all done.  You didn't really "earn your chops" and learn how to drive and "feel" a vehicle until after that.

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Offline Seanaldinho

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Re: So this is a little scary
« Reply #52 on: January 31, 2012, 05:52:39 PM »

Offline Golfer

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Re: So this is a little scary
« Reply #53 on: January 31, 2012, 06:31:53 PM »
Waste of tires....

I believe the word you're looking for is "fun."

I have some Hoosier A6s I'll be leaving on the track and autocross courses. $300+/side new in my size. All in the name of fun.

Offline Seanaldinho

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Re: So this is a little scary
« Reply #54 on: January 31, 2012, 06:45:39 PM »
I believe the word you're looking for is "fun."

I have some Hoosier A6s I'll be leaving on the track and autocross courses. $300+/side new in my size. All in the name of fun.

Nothing wrong with fun but i certainly wouldnt spend ( a set of tires is about 1000 bucks now?) that much for an hour of fun and certainly not in such a new car now if he was using an older car on cheaper tires go for it but if he doesnt mind throw me a couple piles of cash.

Offline Tupac

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Re: So this is a little scary
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2012, 06:53:11 PM »
Nothing wrong with fun but i certainly wouldnt spend ( a set of tires is about 1000 bucks now?) that much for an hour of fun and certainly not in such a new car now if he was using an older car on cheaper tires go for it but if he doesnt mind throw me a couple piles of cash.

Tires for cool cars like Golfers are 'spensive. Get a '93 Taurus, $400 for a set of tires.
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Offline Seanaldinho

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Re: So this is a little scary
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2012, 06:59:20 PM »
Tires for cool cars like Golfers are 'spensive. Get a '93 Taurus, $400 for a set of tires.

See that sort of stuff is different but brand new car brand new expensive tires? Im not bad off but i cant afford new tires every couple of months.

Offline PuppetZ

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Re: So this is a little scary
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2012, 07:05:45 PM »
Very informative, but even with that diagram I don't understand (yet) how the spring types mechanicaly function (at least reliabley), lol. 

I do understand there are differnt types of sensors, years ago when I read up on it I read they had impact/crumple sensors (detecting structural "changes") and deacceleration sensors (now you're moving - now you're not).  I believe the center one that barely got missed in my incident was an impact/crumple variety sensor, in addition to two other similar ones located around the front lamps/corners.  The two other sensors around those same forward positions were of another variety, possibley deaccelration.  I was aware after researching, even if the front center-most sensor directly took the impact, that it requires at least one additional trigger, possibley more, including a confirmed triggering from a deacceleration sensor.

But it just adds to the curiosity of why they deployed in Raptor's situation.  When researching after my incident I concluded a number of things need to line up for airbags (or any SRS) to deploy, they don't jsut happen randomly.

While there were crumple sensors, I dont believe they are still used in recent model/year. Anyway, the deceleration sensors proved to be a very reliable type of sensor and are now almost exclusively used.

The srping type sensors work a lot like the magnetic type. You have a steel cylinder and, wrapped around it, a spiral shaped spring. One end of the spring is attached to the cylinder, the other to the body of the sensor. Now the sensor is triggered when the deceleration force imparted on the steel cylinder is such that it overcome the tension of the spring and allow it to move forward and touch the contacts. The side airbags sensor use the same arrangement but, obviously, are mounted to be triggered by a lateral impact.

As to the why's the SRS was triggered in Raptor's incident, there are 2 possible explanation

#1 and the most likely by far. The deceleration was brutal enough for the deployement condition to be met and triggered the squib(that's what the explosive in the airbag is called).
#2 there was a multiple malfunction in the SRS(quite unlikely when you know how these systems are monitored by the ECU's but still)

A few others interestings facts about SRS that you may or may not know
-modern SRS usually sport multistage squib for multiple deplyement speed. Usually 2 charges, 1 small and a larger one, giving 3 deployement speed. Slow for the light charge, med for the large charge and fast for both. The selected squib trigger will vary with vehicule speed.
-SRS system often incorporate pyrtechnic seat-belt pre-tensionner. On an impact, a squib in the seat-belt assembly trigger and pull on the belt in an attempt to keep your body from moving forward too far, thus optimizing the function of the front airbags.
-all in all, a modern (circa 2009 and up) can incoporate as much as 16 explosive charge
-You have to be at least 10 inches away from the steering wheel when driving to allow sufficient space for the steering wheel airbag to deploy properly. If you're too close, you risk sever injuries
-Always wear the seat belt. Even if the airbag would be enough to protect you, the seat belt will help keep you inside the car were the vehicule to roll.
-The SRS on some cars will stay activated as long as 15 minutes after the battery has been unplugged. There are condensator built in the SRS ECU that will provide power in case the battery is destroyed by an impact.

These systems are really marvel of engineering and biometric. While earlier systems were rather primitive and sometimes even unsafe, you can be confident that modern SRS systems are reliable and effective.

Drive safely

 :salute
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Offline Golfer

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Re: So this is a little scary
« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2012, 07:27:28 PM »
Nothing wrong with fun but i certainly wouldnt spend ( a set of tires is about 1000 bucks now?) that much for an hour of fun and certainly not in such a new car now if he was using an older car on cheaper tires go for it but if he doesnt mind throw me a couple piles of cash.

Track tires cost. The all season Pirellis that come stock (PZero Nero) are a much more reasonable $160/corner. I have quite a bit of the rear ones smeared in the wells and splashed on the rear panels from 50 passes and associated burn outs last season at the strip. I'll be putting some Mickey Thompson drag radials for drag strip use this season.

Some of us like playing with our newer cars. I swapped shifters/brackets and driveshafts from the stock ones and installed a line lock as well.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 07:29:51 PM by Golfer »

Offline icepac

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Re: So this is a little scary
« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2012, 10:03:15 PM »
Whenever "drifting" is mentioned, I always think of this guy dragging himself about.



Here's some real drifting from 1938........some of it 4 wheel drifting with Nuvolari both pushing and oversteering at the same time in the auto union.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmCJvDUWXaY
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 10:12:41 PM by icepac »