Author Topic: WW2 Flight deck ops  (Read 768 times)

Offline Nefarious

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WW2 Flight deck ops
« on: February 17, 2012, 11:55:53 PM »
I know it was probably different by carrier class, but I'm looking for pictures or descriptions of how aircraft were fueled and armed during WW2 aboard carriers.

Was there specific locations above and below for fueling? Rearming could probably be done most anywhere.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline Mace2004

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Re: WW2 Flight deck ops
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2012, 04:14:26 PM »
Given the straight deck, there aren't a lot of options and flexibility is somewhat limited.  For the first cycle of the day they'd spot all the planes aft where they would be fueled, armed and then launched.  Once the first launch was complete, they'd bring up aircraft from the hangar deck and again spot them on the aft end of the deck, and fuel, arm and launch them.  After the second launch most of your planes would be airborne so the flight deck would be prepared to recover the first launch.  The landing area would be cleared and any aircraft still on the flight deck moved forward to the bow and the barrier raised and the recovery begun.  The barrier was a "last resort" means of stopping a plane that missed the arresting gear to keep it from ending up in the pack of aircraft on the bow.  As each aircraft lands they lower the barrier and taxi the plane to the bow raising the barrier again for the next plane.  Once the recovery is complete the aircraft would be respotted aft, refueled, rearmed and then prepared for the third launch.  These alternating cycles would continue throughout the flight day.  For a big strike they'd launch all the planes on the flight deck while bringing up more from below that were already fueled and armed for immediate launch to get just about everything they had airborne at once.  After flight ops are complete for the day they'd spot the aircraft aft and strike some to the hangar bay for repairs or to allow swapping of aircraft for the next flight day.  They would position armed and refueled alert fighters ahead of the pack amidships so they would be able to launch if an incoming raid is detected.  With multiple CV's they would alternate their flight schedules so that there was always a CV prepared to launch or conducting flight ops while the other CV conducted maintenance and repair.

There were other interesting ideas that were tried but most weren't very workable or effective.  For instance, Enterprise had catapults on the hangar deck and the original idea is that they could launch from  both the flight and hangar deck at the same time.  It never really worked as the hangar deck is closer to the water so they'd be much more prone to waves entering the hangar deck plus the hangar deck was typically clobbered with aircraft being maintained or stored.  You get too many planes on the flight deck and it gets too crowded which makes repositioning between cycles difficult to do so they strike the extra planes below which accounts for the crowding.  Another idea was to land planes, taxi them to the bow then take them below via the forward elevator where they would be refueled and rearmed and brought aft where they would be brought to the flight deck via the aft elevator for immediate launch.  Again, this was made more difficult by congestion on the hangar deck as well as the danger of refueling/rearming INSIDE the ship but this procedure was used more often than the idea of actually launching from the hangar deck.

The advent of the angled deck gives much greater flexibility but even now the Navy usually follows similar procedures of alternating launch/recovery cycles (called cyclic ops).  The angled deck also lets them launch and recover at the same time but it's a very tiring process and limits the ability to do maintenance so it isn't done as a regular thing.
Mace
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Offline Nefarious

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Re: WW2 Flight deck ops
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2012, 07:22:06 PM »
Wow, that's a lot of info. Thank you.

I see you mention the danger of refueling below deck. Was there a certain area where aircraft refueled above and below decks? or was it anywhere a hose could reach?
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: WW2 Flight deck ops
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2012, 09:56:21 PM »
Aboard my carrier (CVN69) they always did the fueling on the aft end of the flight deck, same with the weapons loading. The only thing they did in the hanger was storage and repairs. I think it was all done topside due to safety. Should an accident happen it was outside the ship, not inside.

Offline Mace2004

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Re: WW2 Flight deck ops
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2012, 10:46:35 PM »
I doubt there would have been any specific "refueling area".  Modern carriers have fuel hoses on reels in the catwalks all around the flightdeck so you can pretty much refuel at any location on the deck, it makes sense that it was also done this way on the WWII CVs.  I'm sure that they also had them on the hangar deck as well since some of the designs had the hangar deck catapults.  Wouldn't have made any sense to have to bring the plane to the flight deck for refueling then back to the hangar deck for launching.  Of course, I also wouldn't be surprised at all to hear that any hangar deck refueling stations were removed based on wartime experience.  These ships had a much greater potential for massive fires given the use of low-flash point AVGAS as opposed to the high-flash point JP-5 used now.
Mace
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Offline Baumer

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Re: WW2 Flight deck ops
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2012, 12:33:22 AM »
Nef,
I believe that refueling operations took place both fore and aft on the flight deck as the situation dictated. One of the many drawbacks of the straight deck was the constant aircraft handling that was required for launch and recovery operations. Here's a few photo's that show refueling at or forward of the island. I'm pretty sure the SOP was to refuel aft when possible but was frequently altered due to the current flight ops cycle.





Also having just read several accounts of kamikaze attacks around Okinawa, I believe it was common practice to rearm the machine guns in the hanger deck. That being said, it seems the rockets and bombs were loaded on the flight deck for the big carriers.

I have a book (Hellcats over the Philippine Deep) from a pilot who flew F6F's off a CVE and in it he mentions them doing the complete ammo load in the hanger deck. Since the CVE has such a small flight deck when the whole air group was planned for an attack they had no choice other than to load the planes in the hanger.

I can say from my time on the USS Independence and the USS Kitty Hawk that modern ops procedures are much more stringent as Mace and Fugitive stated.

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Offline lengro

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Re: WW2 Flight deck ops
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2012, 04:56:44 AM »
(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)


The upper picture, beautiful! almost like being there - thanks Baumer
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Offline Nefarious

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Re: WW2 Flight deck ops
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2012, 08:53:17 AM »
Great Info guys! Love those pics.

I may have told you this Baumer but my dad was on both the Kitty Hawk and Independence and the JFK, Nimitz and America.  :) 20 year guy.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline AHTbolt

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Re: WW2 Flight deck ops
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2012, 12:32:26 PM »
AWWWWW CRAP YOU SHOT WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In the desert somewhere west of Kuwait 1991.

Offline Nefarious

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Re: WW2 Flight deck ops
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2012, 05:37:06 PM »
Great videos!
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: WW2 Flight deck ops
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2012, 05:55:29 PM »
Most if not all of that "rare color film" video was taken from "The Fighting Lady". A 1944 Oscar winning documentary which is now public domain (which is why they could legally misuse it like that).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WixCu061ZEM
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Offline MK-84

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Re: WW2 Flight deck ops
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2012, 06:49:26 PM »
Off topic, but one of those video's posted shows a B17 taxing with its # 1 and 3 engines off.  That seems strange to me.  Any ideas?

Offline Weirdguy

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Re: WW2 Flight deck ops
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2012, 08:42:16 PM »
Four engine bombers don't need all their engines for taxing.  Its a waste of fuel otherwise.  I do think B-17s need a single, specific engine running to build up oil pressure for the brakes, however.