Author Topic: Sea Cane IIC  (Read 9933 times)

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Sea Cane IIC
« Reply #45 on: February 29, 2012, 07:24:15 PM »
I think that's the case.  The front end has that same shape as the concrete practice head.  I've got a shot somewhere in all these books of the same on a Seafire but can't find it!  I'll keep looking.

Thanks for posting that.

I think we can agree that the 4 cannon Sea Hurri that actually saw combat was the Ic.  Apparently couldn't top 295MPH but had some kills during Operation Torch.  As for rocket Hurri's in a combat zone, we are really talking about the Hurri IV with 4 rockets, sighting 303s and a DT.  I' not sure what appears to be testing and use on an Escort carrier sub hunting away from land would be justification in my mind to adding it to AH because of how it would be used in game play.  We're still talking about cannons and rockets off a carrier to kill a field faster. 

I still think a MG Sea Hurri would be a better addition for events use.
Dan/CorkyJr
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Offline Fish42

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Re: Sea Cane IIC
« Reply #46 on: March 01, 2012, 03:54:24 AM »
Sea Hurricane MkIB



The Hawker Sea Hurricane Mk IB was the first version of the aircraft to be designed for use of aircraft carriers, and was equipped with an arrester hook as well as the catapult spools and naval radio of the Mk IA. The first Hurricane to be equipped with an arrestor hook was delivered to Farnborough in March 1941 and underwent trials while work focused on the catapult-launched Mk IA. A conversion order was then placed for around 300 Mk IBs, with most of the work to be carried out by General Aircraft Ltd. Most of these aircraft used the Merlin III engine and the eight-gun wing, and were sometimes known as the Hooked Hurricane. In November 1941 twenty-five Hurricane IIA Series 2 aircraft were converted to the same standard, keeping the Mk IB designation, but also being known as the Hooked Hurricane II. 

The Sea Hurricane Mk IB was the first high performance aircraft to enter Fleet Air Arm service in significant numbers (the Grumman Martlet also appeared at about the same time, but in small numbers). The Sea Hurricane did have one big flaw as a carrier aircraft - it didn't have folding wings, and so on smaller carriers had to be stored on deck. This reduced the number of aircraft that could be carried, and also shortened the operational life of each aircraft as expose to sea water damaged the airframe. Despite these flaws the Sea Hurricane Mk IB was used in large numbers, equipping 32 Fleet Air Arm squadrons.

The Mk IB entered service in October 1941, operating from converted merchant ships - the MAC-ships. These ships had a small through-flight deck, and could carry a small number of fighters and anti-submarine aircraft - often the Sea Hurricane and Fairey Swordfish.

The first Arctic convoy to be accompanied by an escort carrier was PQ18, the first convoy after the disastrous PQ17. PQ18 was escorted by the US-built escort carrier HMS Avenger, which carried three Swordfish from 825 Squadron and twelve Sea Hurricanes from 802 and 883 Squadrons - six assembled on deck and six dismantled and stored below deck as replacements. The convoy also included the CAM-ship Empire Morn and her Sea Hurricane Mk IA, a cruiser, two destroyers, two anti-aircraft vessels, four corvettes, two anti-submarine trawlers, three minesweepers and two submarines. On the outwards journey the Sea Hurricanes shot down five enemy aircraft and damaged seventeen, in return for four losses. These were replaced with five aircraft from below decks, before the carrier transferred to the home-bound convoy QP14, which contained the survivors from PQ17.

The Sea Hurricane Mk IB and Mk IC played an important role in the defence of the August 1942 Malta convoy (Operational Pedestal). The convoy was escorted by four aircraft carriers with Indomitable (800 Squadron), Eagle (801 Squadron) and Victorious (885 Squadron) carrying 43 Sea Hurricanes between them. There were also sixteen Fairey Fulmars and nine Grumman Mantlets. The convoy began badly with the loss of HMS Eagle, along with sixteen of her Hurricanes - the only four to escape were on Combat Air Patrol (CAP) duty over the convoy. Between 10-15 August the convoy came under attack by up to 500 German and Italian aircraft. 39 enemy aircraft were claimed shot down at a cost of eight naval fighters lost. Only five of the convoy's fourteen merchant ships reached Malta, but the supplies they carried played a crucial role in allowing the island to withstand the Axis siege. The fighting around the Pedestal convoy did demonstrate one increasing problem for the Sea Hurricane - although it had been a high performance fighter when introduced, it was already being outpaced by the Junkers Ju 88, and the Fleet Air Arm would soon need a faster interceptor.


Escort Carrier fighter
Engine: Rolls Royce Merlin III
Power: 1,030hp
Crew: 1
Wing span: 40ft
Length: 31ft 4in
Height: 12ft 11.5in
Normal Loaded Weight: 7,410lb
Max Speed: 317mph at 15,000ft
Cruising Speed:
Time to 20,000ft: 11 minutes
Service Ceiling: 34,200ft
Range: 505 miles
Armament: Eight 0.303in Browning machine guns
Bomb-load: none
Naval equipment: Naval radio set, A-frame arrestor hook, catapult spools




Offline Fish42

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Re: Sea Cane IIC
« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2012, 04:14:37 AM »
Sea Hurricane MkIC



The Hawker Sea Hurricane Mk IC was similar to the Mk IB, but was armed with four 20mm cannon in place of the eight .303in machine guns of the earlier aircraft. The Mk IC was produced by fitting Hurricane IIC wings onto late-series Hurricane I fuselages, converted to carry the arrestor hook and catapult spools needed for naval operations. The extra weight of the cannon wings had a surprisingly dramatic impact on the top speed of the aircraft, dropping it below 300mph, but the extra firepower was invaluable.

The Sea Hurricane Mk IC entered service in January 1942 with No.811 Squadron, and was later used by Nos.801, 802, 803, 880, 883 and 885 Squadrons. Alongside the Mk IB it took part in the defence of Arctic Convoy PQ18, with aircraft from Nos. 802 and 882 Squadrons operating on HMS Avenger. Four Sea Hurricanes were lost during the battles around the convoy, although three of the pilots were rescued, and five enemy aircraft shot down, demonstrating the value of the Sea Hurricane. Although its lower speed made it difficult for the Mk IC to catch the Ju 88, the firepower from the four cannon made a kill far more likely when combat did occur, while many encounters were with older, slower German aircraft.

Fleet Carrier fighter
Engine: Rolls Royce Merlin III
Power: 1,030hp
Crew: 1
Wing span: 40ft
Length: 31ft 4in
Height: 12ft 11.5in
Normal Loaded Weight: 7,605lb
Tropical Normal Loaded Weight: 8,210lb
Max Speed: 276mph at 17,400ft
Cruising Speed:
Service Ceiling: 34,200ft
Range: 505 miles
Armament: Four 20mm cannon
Bomb-load: Two 250lb bombs (early), two 500lb bombs (later) or two 44 Imperial gallon drop tanks
Naval Equipment: Naval radio, A-frame arrestor hook and catapult spools


Offline Fish42

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Re: Sea Cane IIC
« Reply #48 on: March 01, 2012, 04:45:26 AM »
Sea Hurricane MkIIC/XII



The Sea Hurricane Mk IIC was the final major version of the aircraft to be produced in Britain, and was a conversion of the standard Hurricane Mk II, with the Rolls-Royce Merlin XX engine and armed with four 20mm cannon. The more powerful aircraft restored some of the aircraft's speed, bringing its top speed back over 300mph. Hawkers made the first conversion on May 1942, and conversion kits became available from mid-1942. Once against General Aircraft was responsible for most of the conversions, producing 81 aircraft. The first deliveries were made to the Mediterranean Fleet in December 1942, at about the same time as the Seafire was beginning to replace the Sea Hurricane. The Mk IIC was also based at Malta from 1943. It was the last version of the Sea Hurricane to be used in any significant numbers, and flew protective air patrols and rocket-armed anti-submarine patrols throughout 1943 and 1944.

Engine: Rolls Royce Merlin XX
Power: 1,260hp
Crew: 1
Wing span: 40ft
Length: 32ft 2.25in
Height: 13ft 1in
Normal Loaded Weight: 7,618lb
Max Speed: 301mph at 15,000ft; 336mph at 16,600ft
Cruising Speed:
Service Ceiling: 35,600ft
Range: 452 miles with two 44 gallon drop tanks, 1,062 miles with two 90 gallon drop tanks
Armament: Four 20mm cannon
Bomb-load: two 250lb bombs (early), two 500lb bombs (later) or two 44 imperial gallon fuel tanks
Naval Equipment: Naval Radio, A-frame arrestor hook, catapult spools

_____________________________ ____________________________


The Hawker Sea Hurricane Mk XII was a naval version of the Canadian built and Packard Merlin powered Hurricane Mk XII. Different sources give different information about the exact designations used for this aircraft, although the most common view is that the Canadians designated them all as Mk XIIAs, while the Royal Navy gave the designation Mk XIIB to aircraft with the twelve gun wing and XIIC to those with four cannons.

The Sea Hurricane Mk XII first made its mark during Operation Torch, when some were operated by the Royal Navy in American markings. This was done partly to disguise the scale of the British contribution to the operation, and partly to reduce the danger from trigger happy naval gunners, always a threat during major amphibious operations. The Sea Hurricanes were used in action against Vichy French Dewoitines. The Mk XII was later used on escort carriers operating between St. John's Newfoundland and Iceland during 1943-44.

Engine: Packard Merlin 29
Power: 1,300hp
Crew: 1
Wing span: 40ft
Length: 32ft 2.25in
Height: 13ft 1in
Armament: Either twelve .303in guns or four 20mm cannon


Offline Fish42

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Re: Sea Cane IIC
« Reply #49 on: March 01, 2012, 04:54:39 AM »
Total Hurricanes and Sea Hurricanes delivered to the FAA 1939-1945:  537

Total: Hurricane I , Ia and Ib:    48
Total: Sea Hurricane Ib:           290
Total Sea Hurricane II:               42
Total Hurricane I/tropical:         60
Total Hurricane IIa and IIb:       47
Total Hurricane FB.IIc:              37
Total Hurricane IV:                       1
Total: Unspecified variants:      12
 (most probably Hurricane I/Trop)

Various transfers from RAF, including many conversions to Sea Hurricane MkI  variants  fitted with 1,030hp Rolls Royce Merlin III, Mk II variants with 1,289hp Rolls Royce Merlin XX engine

First to RN        1.1941 W9237, 2.41 W9215 at Yeovilton 3.1941 L1663
First sqdn          P3829 to 760 sqdn at Yeovilton 5.1941
First op sqdn:     880 on 15.3.1941 W9219, 804 sqdn in 4.1941 at Yeovilton (W9182), 800 sdqn on 6.1941,
                        880 sqdn on 6.1941 (P3925), 804 sdqn 6.1941 (L1895) and 759/760 sqdn at Yeovilton (N2352)
Last:                 774 sqdn LF630 on 2.1945, 771 sqdn on 1.1945 (LF704). LF630 returned to the the RAF at
                        BAFO Communication Flight on 6.1945

HAWKER HURRICANE FB.IIc transferred from RAF
Total 28
All to RNDA 23MU 4.44 or RNDA 9.44, then all to 771 sqdn avacadot 5.44 and/or with 772 sdqn till 2-3.45


Offline Karnak

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Re: Sea Cane IIC
« Reply #50 on: March 01, 2012, 10:14:58 AM »
Sea Hurricane MkIIC/XII

(Image removed from quote.)

The Sea Hurricane Mk IIC was the final major version of the aircraft to be produced in Britain, and was a conversion of the standard Hurricane Mk II, with the Rolls-Royce Merlin XX engine and armed with four 20mm cannon.
That picture is of Seafires or Spitfires.  Not a Hurri in it.
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Offline DMVIAGRA

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Re: Sea Cane IIC
« Reply #51 on: March 01, 2012, 05:38:08 PM »
That picture is of Seafires or Spitfires.  Not a Hurri in it.
Look in the back behind the tail where the two guys are sitting. NOT A SEAFIRE.

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Sea Cane IIC
« Reply #52 on: March 01, 2012, 05:52:15 PM »
Look in the back behind the tail where the two guys are sitting. NOT A SEAFIRE.

Wildcats belonging to the USS Wasp which was transporting Spitfire Vc Trops to Malta.  No Hurricanes on that ship.
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Offline oakranger

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Re: Sea Cane IIC
« Reply #53 on: March 01, 2012, 08:37:55 PM »
never saw service...

Yes it did.  It was the first German AC to shot down an B-17.
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Sea Cane IIC
« Reply #54 on: March 01, 2012, 08:47:08 PM »
Yes it did.  It was the first German AC to shot down an B-17.


THANK you   :aok
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Sea Cane IIC
« Reply #55 on: March 01, 2012, 09:00:42 PM »

THANK you   :aok

Pay attention  :)

RAF B17C,not a USAAF later model up gunned 17.  109E7 a much better option.
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Sea Cane IIC
« Reply #56 on: March 01, 2012, 09:13:07 PM »
But I couldn't fly it off of a carrier. I've already gotten the point that I'll ferry a 109 or 190 over to the CV NOE before a CV mission starts, and then refuel for CV opps.


I've gotten comments before about a 109 or 190 showing up from a CV about 100miles away from the nearest base.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline Karnak

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Re: Sea Cane IIC
« Reply #57 on: March 01, 2012, 09:18:32 PM »
Look in the back behind the tail where the two guys are sitting. NOT A SEAFIRE.
That is a four cannon Spitfire with a tropical filter on it.
But I couldn't fly it off of a carrier. I've already gotten the point that I'll ferry a 109 or 190 over to the CV NOE before a CV mission starts, and then refuel for CV opps.


I've gotten comments before about a 109 or 190 showing up from a CV about 100miles away from the nearest base.
Bf109T wouldn't be able to fly off of the carrier either.
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Sea Cane IIC
« Reply #58 on: March 01, 2012, 11:34:36 PM »
But I couldn't fly it off of a carrier. I've already gotten the point that I'll ferry a 109 or 190 over to the CV NOE before a CV mission starts, and then refuel for CV opps.


I've gotten comments before about a 109 or 190 showing up from a CV about 100miles away from the nearest base.

As Karnak points out.  109T didn't operate from carriers and were De-navalized before going to Norway so no carrier gear.
Dan/CorkyJr
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Offline nrshida

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Re: Sea Cane IIC
« Reply #59 on: March 02, 2012, 12:42:57 AM »
109E7 a much better option.

Better in what regard? More historically significant arguably but normal length wings and slats + no spoilers = boring.


I don't really want to get in the middle of all you Hurricane spotters & indeed your expertise is impressive, but zooming out a bit to the level of the game, why incorporate a slightly heavier navalised version of something we already have? If there was a 12 x .303 armed version which was navalised, even if it the 4 outer guns were removed by the crews in some / many / most cases, then I think that would be a lot more fun and distinctive.


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