Author Topic: ALLIED AAR Frame 01  (Read 964 times)

Offline Viper61

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ALLIED AAR Frame 01
« on: March 03, 2012, 12:34:04 AM »
I was the ALLIED CIC for frame 01.  Wanted to start the AAR process so that everyone can understand what happened and where as most of only see our little corner of the fight.

Basic ALLIED plan:


Offline Viper61

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Re: ALLIED AAR Frame 01
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2012, 01:02:35 AM »
And it would help if I didn't hit the wrong key right then...... so where was I?  O yes the Basic Plan and keeping it simple:

I divided up the ALLIED side into 4 even Strike Packages using 2 mid squads in bombers being escorted by 1 large and 1 mid sized squad.  Generally speaking there should have been at least 15 bomber formation in each Strike Package minus low turn out squads etc.  And they should have been escorted by about 25 - 30 fighters give or take.

The objectives at Kiel and Hamburg used B-24's because of the speed advantage and the longer flight legs and the B-17's were used in the south for Stuttgart and Frankfurt missions as the flight legs were shorter.

All squads used air spawns and I separated each Strike Package to its own Air Spawn point to make command and control a bit easier.

A simple Task Org sheet was used to get the plan out along with a few notes along with the graphics for each mission.  I let the Squad CO's do the rest.  Administratively there were a few mistakes and the ALLIES were on Update 02 when the fight started.

4 Strike Package Leaders were choose to lead each Mission ensuring that there was command and control at each mission target.

A technique we used up north was for the 1 Strike Package to follow the other directly behind it by about 25 miles.  My thinking was that as the first Strike Package went to its target the AXIS wont be looking behind it for the second one.  That would allow the second Strike Package to close into the target area and get fairly close (50 miles) before being found.  At Hamburg this worked as planned and I don't think the AXIS side knew we were there until a few 109's tripped across us about 50 miles out.  That placed us 11 minutes from drop.

Once at the target the Hamburg bombers spread out a bit left and right and dropped bombs all over the target areas.  I heard several reports of buffers full of destroyed targets.

We got hit by what looked like 3 waves of AXIS fighters.  Lots of 109's and then 110's at the target area.  The AXIS did a fairly good job of pushing into the bombers but paid a high price to G3-MF and the AK's.  These two squad did an assume job of pushing the down and pushing them away.  Listening to the radio chatter was like listening to real combat chatter, short, consis and to the point.  Amazing given 25 pilots from 2 squads working together.

Our gunners were plenty busy and I know several of them got kills.  A fairly tight bomber formation but not perfect helped to deal death and distruction to the 109's that got in between the bombers.

Our bomber loss's at Hamburg looked like about 25% lose but that's only a guess it could be a bit higher as we had a break in contact at the last turn after the drop.  I slowed down as far as I could and we formed back up for the remainder of the flight home.

We changed the landing field from the plan to 75 miles closer as the AXIS side only had about 8 guys left flying at that point.  So we set up a air cap at A127 and started landing the bombers.  The fighter cap landed after the last bomber was down and towered.

From my arm chair the Hamburg piece was nearly flawless in execution largely because I had the 132nd in B24's with the 325th VFG and we were escorted by G3MF and the AK's.

Great job ALLIES <S>

Great Job AXIS defenders at Hamburg <S>

Great job ALLIED SIDE from what I could track.  Would like to hear some comments from the other 3 Strike Packages and what happened.  Will be interesting to see the points for frame 01.  I think we did well but you never know.

Offline AKRaider

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Re: ALLIED AAR Frame 01
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2012, 01:31:28 AM »
 :salute to Viper61.  One of the best frames in recent memory from where we sit.  A good plan well executed.

 :salute to all the crews of 132DW and 325th Checkertails.  You gave better than you got.  Nice job Kuya and Shreddr.  6 kills.

 :salute to III/JG11.  Your air discipline at the first merge was superb.  Our hats are off.  Sorry so many of our scalps are hanging in your Heritage Room.  :)

 :salute to G3-MF.  It was a pleasure flying with your gifted pilots.  Congratulations on a hard-won kill tally.   
XO Arabian Knights

Offline Viper61

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Re: ALLIED AAR Frame 01
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2012, 01:36:28 AM »
Battles Stats:

ALLIES put up a total of 168 bombers - 52 were shot down - 31% loss rate

ALLIES put up 130 fighters - 59 were shot down - 45% loss rate

Thanks little friends for defending well. <S>

My ruff estimate of the points in a band width is a draw to up to about +200 points for the ALLIES.  So a close frame and well fought by each side.

Very fun and I'm looking forward to the next frame.

Offline Butcher

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Re: ALLIED AAR Frame 01
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2012, 07:16:00 AM »
On the AXIS side I was defending Kiel up north, I ran a defensive circle 25 miles West of the Port looking to engage the escorts and hoping to drop them down (being in a 190a5) - we first ran into some sort of fighter sweep, easily over 10 fighters we swooped into and tangled with the Rolling Thunder (as if things needed to be harder), once the fight died off we seen the main group - over 10 sets plus heavy escorts. Our group of 190s were already banged up and below 15k driving the fighters down, I managed to climb back up to make one pass of the b24's before I had my oil hit, there were simply to many buffs and escorts for my damage bird to continue on.

Second I made my pass and turned to get back in front the escorts were on me already, 4-5 chased me back to 18 and I was able to evade, but the damage was done - I heard on the radio the target area was flattened.

We didn't see two packages only one strike package and one fighter escort,  not sure how well the strike package was hit, I was out of the fight before the Buffs even hit the radar ring.

<S> rolling thunder, 68th and DrBone - I certainly enjoyed the frame
JG 52

Offline Nefarious

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Re: ALLIED AAR Frame 01
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2012, 08:18:37 AM »
The 412th FNVG were used as 109 Scouts. We had 6 Bf 109G-6s, a few took Gondolas I personally did not. We air spawned out of A17 AS South and were tasked with flying West, to the No-Fly Zone border and finding the bombers. I discoed before fields closed and reupped. We arrived on station and were getting reports of bombers to the Northeast heading towards Kiel.

We kind of got sidetracked and wanted to get a peek of the Kiel attackers, thinking we may have strayed to far, that's when we found the Hamburg force. I relayed the info to the Hamburg Defenders and proceeded to engage. Heavy escort was met and somewhat separated me from the rest of my squad. Then I was flying parallel with the B-24s. I made what I thought was a great head on pass, but as i closed it was more of a 45 degree pass off the front of the formation. I think I scored some hits but saw no damage.

I positioned myself to make another pass but was shot down by an unseen escort fighter flown by cotton. I need to work on my SA.  :lol

Great event.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline SlipKnt

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Re: ALLIED AAR Frame 01
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2012, 09:36:51 AM »
From G3-MF's perspective over Hamburg:

THAT was an insane and incredible mission.

First, we were spotted by a pair of 109 scouts. We pressed through.

Then, we got jumped by 109s. Everyone (AKs and G3) stayed with the bombers as planned.

Then, 190s came in. I thought they would be the bomber killers. The first 190 I saw immediately went to fight mode instead of attack the bombers mode. Strange to me as I would normally go after the bombers if I am in a 190...

I dodged a 190, then saw Rodent57 get that same 190 latched on. I sprayed and prayed and pinged him. He rolled away from our fearless leader.

All of a sudden, we get the call... "110s diving in from 30K".  I am thinking, "Genius!  This is a 3 layer defense with scouts.  They will destroy the bombers before we get in."

All in all, the escorts did what they intended...   ...stayed with the bombers and held our altitude.  A few, including me, ended up below the bombers after the 110s broke through.  It was a long and white knuckled climb back to altitude to get back to the bombers.

 :salute to 325th and 132nd on hanging in there and getting to target and on your leg home
 :salute to the Arabian Knights.  You guys were aggressive and hung in there
 :salute to all of Orange Strike for the radio discipline.  It is getting MUCH MUCH better as we all mature in FSO

DCS:
SlipKnoT
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Offline j500ss

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Re: ALLIED AAR Frame 01
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2012, 10:48:54 AM »
My squad was lead for the defense of Hamburg.  I took the 2 smaller squads 412th and 332nd, to do the scouting.  Once I saw the attack under way up north I mentioned to my wingman " what an awesome chance to slip right in behind that attack and hit Hamburg"

A bit later Nef spotted the incoming attack as did the second element on patrol from the 332nd.   II/JG11's mission task was tie up and take out the escorts with the 190's.  I think they did an awesome job   :salute

Kommando Nowotny in the 110's, and the Jokers Jokers in G2's, were tasked with hitting the bombers. :salute

All in all I felt things went well, I think we all knew up front our assignments, and they were carried out above and beyond expectation. 

I want to personally than the 412th, JG11, KN, and JJ for their input and cooperation in what was a enjoyable evening.    :salute

And to the attackers at Hamburg a big  :salute as well.    Was FUN!!

JDog


Offline BlueE

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Re: ALLIED AAR Frame 01
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2012, 01:06:24 PM »
<S> Butcher.  It was a fun night and a great fight!

 :salute
BlueE
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Offline Poppy

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Re: ALLIED AAR Frame 01
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2012, 01:17:47 PM »
Frame 1 was the real deal last night and the lions share for making it happen goes to "simple planning" . .  :salute Viper61 . . the BIG<S> to you for a job well done! Green flight strike package's suvival faired best of all from what the records show, following this simple plan individually working as one collectively, and being assigned as part of their escort was your order and our privilege and we all feel great about the results not to mention the non stop action for about 40 minutes between airspawn and landing. Everyone implementing your tactics must've shook up the axis' aura of invinsibility to the point of vengance. Awaiting further orders Sir, we know they're gonna be gunnin for us in a big way next mission, can't wait to see what your gonna do to keep them duckin.  :airplane: Note we had a fighter and a bomber that had trouble with their engines, throttle and manifolds barely responding for about 15 minutes loosing speed and altitude the whole time and partially spreading us out so, if this happens re-sync your engines . . control E, idle goes to 0 and gives you back your engine control again, FYI  :bhead
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Offline AKKuya

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Re: ALLIED AAR Frame 01
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2012, 01:27:53 PM »
As the CO of the 132 DW Bomber Squad, I want to thank the planning of Viper61 for a thorough battleplan on the assault of German held territory, especially with our little corner of the sky.  :salute

I also like to thank my former squaddies to an excellent job of escorting the bombers to and back from the target, the Arabian Knights.  :salute  Also, to G3-MF for providing escort.  :salute

This was truly what FSO is about with a straight forward approach and simplicity at its finest with this set-up.  Each side has an even chance of establishing air supremacy.  Last night it went to the Allied due to good planning and lots of luck with timing as elements of each side found and engaged each other.  Defensive positioning was sound and it fell to the local CO's on tactical choices of attacking at altitude or diving on the bombers that became the critical difference between success or failure.

I consider this just a warmup for Frames 2 and 3.  I expect CIC's for both Frames to have solid planning and great tactical leadership from the subordinate squad CO's.  We want this to be a running battle at best and one sided battle at worst.  Axis does have the potential to stop any Allied thrust.  

In early 2011, I was the Axis CO for Battle of Germany Scenario and know what the Axis CIC's are going through.  100 percent defense in stopping Allied thrusts into German territory.  We had a blast attempting to stop the Allied bomber trains charging headlong especially into Berlin.  Thsi time, I get to be on the other side and be what I enjoy.  A bomber pilot!!!

A big  :salute to you Luftwaffe pilots and to the 3 of you I sent to the Russian Front. :D  
Chuck Norris can pick oranges from an apple tree and make the best lemonade in the world. Every morning when you wake up, swallow a live toad. Nothing worse can happen to you for the rest of the day. They say money can't buy happiness. I would like the opportunity to find out. Why be serious?

Offline Stampf

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Re: ALLIED AAR Frame 01
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2012, 11:45:29 AM »

Quote
to III/JG11.  Your air discipline at the first merge was superb.  Our hats are off.  Sorry so many of our scalps are hanging in your Heritage Room.

Salute Raider.  Thank you.  A top shelf compliment from a top shelf squadron.  It was immensely difficult not to dive in on all those fat buffs. I was very proud of how the boys handled the situation and stuck to the mission.

No worries...plenty of room on our...hat rack.

<S>


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Offline perdue3

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Re: ALLIED AAR Frame 01
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2012, 02:48:24 PM »
Sadly we could not decimate the buffs as we wanted. Rocket rule handicapped us a bit (well, my misinterpretation of rocket rule). Needless to say I didnt stay around to fight but I can only imagine what JG 11 did after we were gone.
C.O. Kommando Nowotny 

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Offline 49Jester

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Re: ALLIED AAR Frame 01
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2012, 01:46:44 PM »
The 49th was assigned B17's along with the 353rd, and headed the Stuttgart Raid. This was one of the most successful missions we have been in. Excellent Escorts from Unclkurt and th CJ's along with the Gunfighters. We lost one guy I believe who had to bail for family reasons. The ememies attack was timed perfect as we got hit just as we were in the scope as we prepared to bomb.That threw off a few of our bombs a bit, but we still had success.

 We came in third overall for the Allies with 84 Objects destroyed. We also had 8 kills and 5 assists. But this only happened because of the excellent escorts provided for us, allowing us to keep a tight formation to and from target. From gear up to gear down, an hour and a half. I think thats the longest we all stayed alive in a long , long time. Exccellent plan and well flown by all <S>
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Offline InCrypt

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Re: ALLIED AAR Frame 01
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2012, 04:58:51 PM »
The Gun Fighters had a blast!

   We had a small hiccup as just before the frame started we attempted to indoctrinate the mass of our squad with classical wingman formations and tactics. This was an abortive attempt as the material was presented in a condensed and concentrated manner that caused a lot of frustration, with little knowledge transfer.

   Coming into the FSO frame with this baggage we sorted amazingly fast, and settled into our role as 60/40 P47/P38 defensive fighters for the 49th & 353rd bomber groups. We camped out at 29,900 feet, and about 1.5K in front of the bomber formation. Our defensive screen of 17 pilots was spread out into 3 mass-groups, with a couple of single stragglers who latched onto the bombers to maintain navigation.
   I was leading the group of 6 that had un-intentionally shot about 6K out in front of the bomber group. We were doing switch-backs trying to allow the bombers to catch up when at 50 miles to target we made first contact. I had been hearing from the Claim Jumpers – who had gone out in advance as skirmishers – that there was massive contact out there, but this was the first that had found our little piece of sky.
   Immediately the tension shot up as the call went out. I expected the contacts – 109’s – to try and mix it up and drive us down, but instead they blew through the merge and pressed for the bombers. Little did they know that I had 11 buddies 5K over the bomber group who would be more than happy to chew them up.
   By the time I got my group back to the bombers the 109’s were scattered, and I heard that 2 of the original 6 had already been suppressed. There were a couple of passes by 109’s, and one latched onto a bomber’s six. I sprayed at that guy – trying not to hit the friendly – more to drive him away than to force a kill. It worked and he broke down. I resisted the temptation to follow, and instead climbed up.
   Here I encountered two more 109’s. 1 from 2 O’clock high, with a squad on his six, and another that blew through from 8 O’clock with lots of smash, and I had to nose over to pursue. This second 109 got shot down moments later, before I even had a chance to close to guns range.
   And then the sky was empty.

   I was hearing radio chatter of other fighters engaged with 109’s, pushing the opponents lower and lower. And more of my squaddies, who where comparing notes as they had triple-teamed a 109 (Turned out to be SheGotchya), and were proud that they had captured some of the wingman tactics from the lesson just before FSO. The two fighters chasing the lone 109 down, made the wise decision to break contact and return to the formation. They were at 12 K, 8K below our established hard deck, and now had to struggle to catch up.
   Elements of {The Gun Fighters} immediately re-attached to the bomber formation, and we vectored in our remaining squad-mates. Having lost only two pilots, one to compression, one to disco, the entirety of the squad was back over the 49th within fifteen minutes. We then finished high escort back to the gold line, anticipating an enemy screen (Something I had architected last year when I was an operations officer on the Axis side – I never looked at the numbers in flight <Oops>).
Four of our fighter escort, low on fuel were forced to rearm at a FARP base, and then continued on. We provided CAP while the 49th landed, and then touched down our selves for a photo-finish on the start line. This, though, is were we had our one other casualty, as he clipped a gun position during ground operations and had to ditch as his momentum was insufficient to carry him to concrete. All told, we had no losses due to enemy fire, and the 49th only lost 1 or 2 drones, and no pilots to enemy fire.

A banner night!
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