Author Topic: Apache crash  (Read 1282 times)

Offline G0ALY

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Re: Apache crash
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2012, 04:10:12 PM »
I'm having trouble imagining why a rotary wing aircraft might need forward speed to take off. From my understanding hovering should be the easiest task for a helicopter to do because all the lift from the rotors is directed straight up. Unless the fuselage design provides some inherent lift itself?

Here is my understanding… The rotor blade of a hovering helicopter is continuously encountering the turbulence and vortexes left behind from the blade in front of it. However, if a helicopter is moving forward, the ’fresh’ or ’clean’ air allows the rotor blade to more efficiently produce lift.

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Offline Spork

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Re: Apache crash
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2012, 05:02:01 PM »
Here is my understanding… The rotor blade of a hovering helicopter is continuously encountering the turbulence and vortexes left behind from the blade in front of it. However, if a helicopter is moving forward, the ’fresh’ or ’clean’ air allows the rotor blade to more efficiently produce lift.



Hovering in a helicopter is actually the most power demanding operation it can do. The reason is pretty much stated above but there is another thing that is working against you when you are hovering, wing tip vortices. Even fixed wing aircraft have wing tip vortices, however, obviously they only move forward so it doesn't generally effect their performace.

With rotary-wing aircraft, you still create wing tip vortices, however when you are hovering or travelling beneath ETL(Effective Translational Lift), you are not outside of them. What happens in that case is you do not have the full rotor span creating lift for you. The "wing tips" and the "root" of the blade are cycling through "dirty air", or their own vortices. What is essentially happening is that the wing tips and the root of the rotor disc are stalled and the only portions of the blade creating lift is the middle portion. Because of this it, hovering is the most power intensive operation for helicopters.

In addition, there is the tail rotor RPM requirements and that puts stress on the engine that can result in Loss of Tailrotor Effectivness while in a hover and there is Settling with Power but I won't get into those unless someone wants to know.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 05:08:51 PM by Spork »
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Offline Seanaldinho

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Re: Apache crash
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2012, 08:26:32 PM »
Is it possible he was asked to do this? For a morale sort of thing. Ive seen it done before by a blackhawk and its flat awesome.

Offline MK-84

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Re: Apache crash
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2012, 08:47:46 PM »
Is it possible he was asked to do this? For a morale sort of thing. Ive seen it done before by a blackhawk and its flat awesome.

I suspect considering that these pilots are trained for combat, they are encouraged (to a degree) to push their aircraft.  I'm not certain we should scold the pilot for being reckless and unsafe...considering what his job is.  If we did that universally, every pilot that lands on an aircraft carrier is an idiot too ;)

Was he showing off, probably...but I dont know if that qualifies him as the badguy vs. the guy who made a mistake with crappy consequences.

Offline USRanger

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Re: Apache crash
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2012, 08:59:32 PM »
I think the pilot has been through enough already just living through that crash.  He probably doesn't want to fly again after that!  It's absolutely crazy that there were no deaths.
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Offline Volron

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Re: Apache crash
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2012, 09:15:21 PM »
I don't think they will let him fly anything after that, except maybe a desk.  It's obvious that it was messed up after the initial impact, but what definitely sealed it was when the tail struck an embankment shortly after it, taking the tip off.  I'm surprised that either of them survived considering.
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Offline Wildcat1

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Re: Apache crash
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2012, 09:20:59 PM »
Considering the incredible amount of gyration when the tail rotor struck, It's amazing there were no injuries.
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Offline ozrocker

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Re: Apache crash
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2012, 07:51:43 AM »
When the Soviets were in Afghanistan their helicopters needed a rolling takeoff just to get airborne from high-alt mountain bases.
Hinds do not hover, large weight of ship and weapons= rolling takeoff
They can take off vertically, but due to payloads usually roll for lift.

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« Last Edit: March 24, 2012, 07:57:06 AM by ozrocker »
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Offline B4Buster

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Re: Apache crash
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2012, 06:01:08 PM »
Holy crap, that was a bit tough to watch. I can't believe nobody got killed.
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Offline Tupac

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Re: Apache crash
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2012, 06:06:06 PM »
I think the pilot has been through enough already just living through that crash.  He probably doesn't want to fly again after that!  It's absolutely crazy that there were no deaths.

Dunno, if someone loves flying it will take alot to keep them away.
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: Apache crash
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2012, 08:00:32 AM »
Dunno, if someone loves flying it will take alot to keep them away.
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