ACM vs. SA

[DrJackyI]

SA first......  ACM second.

If you don't see them, you can't fight them.

Most often, if u play alot during peak hours, u will find urself engaged with more than 1 bogie. The above statement is accurate, but I would like to add a little something.

SA and ACM actually go hand in hand. When fighting multiple bogies at once, SA, gives u much more information than u realize, u just have to be able to understand what u are seeing. Being able to "read" and "anticipate" what each bogie IS doing and their POSSIBLE manuevering angles is a skill that hopefully u gain from practicing SA. In turn, once u have an idea about what options are available to ur nmy before, during, and after an engagement, ur knowledge of ACM comes into play. In other words, when "dogfighting" 2 or more, once u "read" the angles of ur nmy or nmies, now u have to decide what ACM u will use. The first con may or may not present u with a shot, lets say he doesnt, well now u evade, BUT ur evasion manuever SHOULD depending on the sitrep present u with 1 of 2 options AFTER his pass. 1 hopefully give u a shot on his extension, or 2 give u a position set for either evading the second cons attack OR pressing an attack on the second con.

Many a times, I have had to make 3 or 4 evasion moves (Defensive ACM) with the intention of each move giving me an option for the next cons merge of either evading or performing and (Offensive) ACM to gain a firing solution on either the first or the second con.

So simply put, I DO NOT believe that 1 is more important than the other. I believe that BOTH are equally important to the pilot in order for him/her to have the greatest chance of success !!!!!

[Midway]

SA over ACM.  The proof lies with players such as Pacerr and Chalenge.  Both players have good SA, but no one has ever accused them of being able to fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

FPH Grizz has spoken. 

  All we need now is FPH Bruv119 to confirm.

[DrJackyI]

and if we really get into nitpicking, there are different types of "SA" as well. The true situational awareness, when one is watching the immediate surroundings, tracking firends and foes, assessing energy states and so on...
... and the "battle awareness", which extends beyond the icon / dot rendering distance, fed by closely monitoring and interpreting text channels and clipboard data. I'm often amazed about how many players simply fail at the latter one 

LMAO HOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE

[DrJackyI]

OH!!!!  One last thing ~~~~~~

IRL not that this is, But I TRY to play the game as it is becuase for me it is more enjoyable.... BUT !! IRL ~~~~~~

The squadron commander choses his flight "LEADS" becuase of both his FIGHTING and ACM against ACM knowledge PLUS !!!!!  his ability to "___READ___" a given situation BEYOND the point of his immediate environment.

~DS~
aka SDPrymal

[ink]

ACM>SA

AIM>ACM>SA

[Midway]

ACM>SA

AIM>ACM>SA

  Backwards

[grizz441]

True Grizz, but how much SA does it actually take to fly like they fly? They enter hostile areas always at least 10k over the highest enemy. Most of the time they only engage enemies who are already busy with other fights. This is why I say the best ACM guys are also the best SA guys. They have so much practice in multiple plane engagements, that their SA skills are far more developed. Every top ACM guy I have ever flown against also has great SA skills. They really go hand in hand. In my mind it is really hard to separate the two. I guess it just goes back to how one chooses to play.

I see what you are saying and I agree, but I think their ability to maintain advantage, as timid as it may seem, is still an indication of quality SA.  Anybody can climb forever to a fight and come in with advantage, but it is a matter of being lethal while also staying safe, especially when in general they have no ACM skill.  That is proof to me that they know what is going on around them and have managed to be successful without knowing how to actually fight, and with that, I argue that SA is more important.  

In addition, SA isn't just knowing what is going on around you, but just as important, the process in deciding what to do with advantage, whom to attack, when to climb, when to turn, when to flee, when to reverse, etc etc.  There are a hundred different decisions that can be made in any given sortie, most will lead you to death.  

[grizz441]

ACM>SA

AIM>ACM>SA

I would actually rank it as SA>AIM>ACM

You could argue ACM is greater than AIM and I would agree in a 1v1, but in the MA, aim is more important.

Basically:
In a 1v1: ACM>AIM>SA
Main Arena: SA>AIM>ACM

[Midway]

I would actually rank it as SA>AIM>ACM

You could argue ACM is greater than AIM and I would agree in a 1v1, but in the MA, aim is more important.

Basically:
In a 1v1: ACM>AIM>SA
Main Arena: SA>AIM>ACM

 FPH Grizz has clarified.

   Now just need FPH Bruv to confirm said clarification.

[ink]

I would actually rank it as SA>AIM>ACM

You could argue ACM is greater than AIM and I would agree in a 1v1, but in the MA, aim is more important.

Basically:
In a 1v1: ACM>AIM>SA
Main Arena: SA>AIM>ACM

does not matter how good your ACM or SA is....... without Aim....your all done.

[grizz441]

does not matter how good your ACM or SA is....... without Aim....your all done.

Lol, well yeah, but I could just as easily say it does not matter how good your aim is, without SA you are done.  Just my 2 cents on how the metrics stack up, we are all entitled to our opinions because that's all they are. 

[mtnman]

I'd have to say that I find aim to be huge as well, because it helps preserve my SA and minimizes my ACM requirements.

I don't do the DA thing much at all... 

Even in a 1v1, for me it's still SA> ACM, because even beyond the SA involved for that particular fight I'm still looking all over the mplty sky, expecting to see another bad guy coming in.  I'm also bringing my map up while I fight anytime an opportunity presents itself, and even scanning text. 

The longer a fight lasts, the greater a toll on my SA.  Aim helps minimize that tool.  I'm not sure I can put aim as greater in importance than ACM, but I can say that my aim allows me to get by with less ACM...

Then again, my use of ACM is probably a large contributor to my ability to improve my aim...

SA first, but AIM and ACM may be almost equal?

[DrBone1]

I usually dont like chatting in conversations like this but this does interest me on some of the opinions you guys have stated.


In my opinion based on how I perform in the MA, I depend more on my Aim and SA rather than ACM.

But I am not bothered to look back through all the posts to read not really sure where you guys are going with it.

If this is a debate on what matters most in a fight/Multiple situation it would be all of the above.

You cant have one and expect to accomplish much without having Aim or SA.

Yes those ACMs may be fancy and keep you alive for some time but if you cant finish your target in the first turn/shot then in my opinion you are done.

 

[ink]

I agree with Bone





 



seriously I fought some guys that I easily out merged and fired many times on them but could not make the kill, he hit and I died.....

or fighting multi cons I can easily track 5+ cons merge with them and get shots on all of them, but I miss more often then not, so I die.....if my aim was as good as my SA fighting and killing a group of 5 or more would be easy peasy. and a daily thing as it is now its a rare thing....

my best is a 5vs1....1>5

although winning a 2vs1 or 3vs1 has gotten more often for me.

my skill set goes like this from best to worst, and skill level equated with size 

SA-ACM-aim

this totally correlates to how I have always played.

[Slash27]

If I could shoot I'd be dangerous.