please adjust the 190A8

[Wmaker]

How would you change the sea level speed without changing the higher alt speeds and climb rate which, if I understand correctly, are accurate?

By adjusting the FM to hit any given data set by tweaking the the affecting parameters like prop eff for example. HTC does it all the time when developing new planes.

[guncrasher]

Yikes, it's been a long day. Thanks for pointing that out.

So, any noticeable performance gains after losing 400 20mm rounds?

shoot all the rounds it carries and it would make some awesome performance



semp

[dhyran]

with the lowered weight by using the lite gun package 2*20mm151only, but more performance it should be have nearly the same feeling like a 190A5

http://www.schifferbooks.com/newschiffer/book_template.php?isbn=076431940X

[RTHolmes]

didnt we already establish that the AH A8 is either; 35lb too light, or 20lb too heavy, depending on whether the winter equipment was fitted?

I thought all this omgz the fw190A8 is 1000lb too heavy! nonsense had already been put to bed ...

[pervert]

didnt we already establish that the AH A8 is either; 35lb too light, or 20lb too heavy, depending on whether the winter equipment was fitted?

I thought all this omgz the fw190A8 is 1000lb too heavy! nonsense had already been put to bed ...

By the looks of it HTC has looked at it around 2 years ago?

Thor let me try clue you in.

Baumer made a post about a weight problem. He posted the data sheet he worked from (note it was an original document NOT 2nd hand information).

2 he did real analysis of AH's weight as compared to his document.

3. He found a discrepancy.

4. He did real math as to what EXACTLY he thought the discrepancy was.

5. I saw his post walked over to Doug and said what you think of this.

6. We decided to look into it.

Your post.

1. You read this document that the pilot said the FW was not bad in stalls.

2. You think AH is not docile in stalls.

3. You have no real frame of reference of what stalls are like in a plane.

I read your post after all the other BS you have posted and just simply ignore it , because every post you ever make has 1 thing in common.

It wants to make the FW or 109 better then it is currently modeled. And every post shows nothing really concrete to back up you post. You try use stuff like the history channel to back up a claim. At every possible turn you try to flame HTC. You post in a criticizing  manner in every effort you make.When corned you simply change topics and go onto some other item you wish to complain about, and then months later say your 1st issue was not addressed when you were proven wrong. You try to argue physics with people who do this stuff for a living  and then wish to argue that there math means nothing just because you can't do the same.

You show no interest what so every to try gain a working knowledge of the what makes planes fly so you will make statements like a plane is 900lb to heavy with out realizing a discrepancy of that magnitude is almost impossible to happen because it causes conflicts with many other numbers that say something is not correct. We have seen documents of the 205 that say it can climb faster then the HP that the same document said the plane had. If you don't have just the basics of math to be able to do simple analysis you would state we are biased because we don't make the 205 fly like the document said.

Now why would I given even the slightest credibility to your thoughts about the way a plane should fly. When you give us 0 credibility for knowledge of the subject even though we do this stuff for a living.

HiTech

[Ruah]

A8 is a mushroom in AH for sure. . .

[FLS]

By adjusting the FM to hit any given data set by tweaking the the affecting parameters like prop eff for example. HTC does it all the time when developing new planes.

I understand how they can make a global adjustment, I'm just wondering how they can adjust sea level speed without it affecting the other performance figures. When you have the correct climb rates and speeds for different altitudes changing something like prop efficiency will change them too. Changing sea level engine thrust will change seal level climb rate and turn performance etc.

[Wmaker]

I understand how they can make a global adjustment, I'm just wondering how they can adjust sea level speed without it affecting the other performance figures. When you have the correct climb rates and speeds for different altitudes changing something like prop efficiency will change them too. Changing sea level engine thrust will change seal level climb rate and turn performance etc.

Prop eff is dynamic and changes with speed/altitude. Ie. climb speed and top speeds will have different prop eff.

[bustr]

Is the Aces High sea level air density and tempurature the same as the FW 11/43 testing?

[Tank-Ace]

I understand the columns.  I did not understand "Rüstsätze".

The weight we use is based on a number of things (fuel, ammo loads...).  I cannot specifically state how any given weight is determined but I am pretty certain you cannot just subtract a gun package to determine a base weight or add a gun package to determine another weight.

Again, I am not sure what makes up the weight and I am also not sure how much weight will impact the charts themselves.

Skuzzy, as I understand it, the AH 190A-8 is represented weight-wise as either the Fw 190A-8/R7, or the R8, depending on how Hitech, Pyro, and whoever else is involved in modeling wanted to represent the 30mm's (as a seperate Rüstsätze kit, or as part of the R8 kit).

However, I'm also given to understand that the A-8 was modeled with the wrong level of protection being given for the weight. Depending on which model of A-8 we have, this seems to fall into line with what happens in Aces High.

[Babalonian]

Here's the weight break down that gives the same all up weight as in the game with standard armament (the last page of the document): http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/td284.pdf

I don't really see anything out of the ordinary on that weight break down. There really isn't anything there that could make the plane much lighter considering what normally came with it.


The plane already is modelled with higher WEP setting than it had initially. Or are you talking something else than 801D2 with 1.58/1.65ata WEP-setting which was cleared in mid '44, T-variants perhaps?

There is nothing mistaken, other than possibley a 1-200 pounds (barely notable) difference, with the weights of the specific model and varient in AH.  It is equiped with a standard engine that was the standard when it started its run/production. 

Less than half-way through this production period though, it got the clearance to use the higher settings.  This was more than a year before the end of the war.   In AH we have an A-8 that was predominantley the most represented 190 varient in the skies over Europe, particularly during that timeframe.

So now, purely personal preference/speculation - but what decision would you make for the radial-powered end/late-war representing 190 A-8?

For the last year, to be clear, I am carrying the banner of
"please give up the engine the airframe had for ~2/3 of its total combat time"
OR
"If it's an early/mid '44 A-8 then, it's an early/mid '44 A-8.  May we please have acknowledgement of that fact so we can move on requesting a different, later, differently-distinguished radial-powered late/end-war Fw190 for fighter combat (A-8 or A-9).

Coincidently, but speratley, I think we could use antoher 190F model ontop of some adjustments/updates to the current one, particularly in regards to expanding it's ordnance options/capabilities.


Such changes (I guess, upgrades) wouldn't be off-balancing or anything, it's not gonna make a good plane super or unstopable, they would just contribute to and add to the line-up, and with such focus in the online play beign given the the end/late-war equipment, this would just be more gravey for the table, and not a turkey.

[Babalonian]

Which of the primary fighters in AH perform at their extreme engine performance?

Really, guppy?  I wish people would think as hard as I try to give honest replys in these threads. (Not trying to single you or SKUZZY out here or anything Guppy, but seriously grindin' some gears.  Try to think of in this thread for longer than just one sentence, please, because I care.) 



OK, seriously, obvious missunderstanding there with my application of the word extreme.

I meant in regards to the exreme of the latest production varient posibile/available in AH.

Many plane lineups in AH do have a ball-parked model for an individual aircraft model's/varient's extreme.

IE:  The K-4, P-47M, F4U-4, Tempest.  All beloved and popular fighters at their extreme, with performances averaged but not at their single given extremes within the model.

[Wmaker]

I've thought quite a long time now that A-9 would be a great addition. Considering that all of the 3D-artwork is already made and Greebo/Cactus could do the default skin. The A-8 sees a lot of use and as such the "bang for the buck" of the A-9 would be hard to beat. Kind of like the P-47M.

[Karnak]

Really, guppy?  I wish people would think as hard as I try to give honest replys in these threads. (Not trying to single you or SKUZZY out here or anything Guppy, bIE:  The K-4, P-47M, F4U-4, Tempest.  All beloved and popular fighters at their extreme, with performances averaged but not at their single given extremes within the model.

None of those are modeled with 150 octane or the high quality German fuel for the Bf109.

As to Guppy's question, the closest I can think of is the because the Mosquito Mk VI is at the top end of Mosquito Mk VI performance with 100 octane fuel.

Of course with 150 octane it would be much better.

[Guppy35]

Really, guppy?  I wish people would think as hard as I try to give honest replys in these threads. (Not trying to single you or SKUZZY out here or anything Guppy, but seriously grindin' some gears.  Try to think of in this thread for longer than just one sentence, please, because I care.) 



OK, seriously, obvious missunderstanding there with my application of the word extreme.

I meant in regards to the exreme of the latest production varient posibile/available in AH.

Many plane lineups in AH do have a ball-parked model for an individual aircraft model's/varient's extreme.

IE:  The K-4, P-47M, F4U-4, Tempest.  All beloved and popular fighters at their extreme, with performances averaged but not at their single given extremes within the model.

This was my point.  My experience from watching these boards over the years is that the odds of HTC having modeled a LW plane correctly is about zero based on the LW fans.  There is a vision in players heads of what a LW bird should do, and if it doesn't do it in the MA, then it must be modeled wrong.  I don't see this as much from the fans of other plane sets nearly as much.  If other birds are brought up it's more often going to be by a LW guy who believes the other bird is over modeled.

All I'm seeing so far is that HTC has modeled a general 190A8 variant that is meant to cover a lot of time frame.  Sounds an awful lot like the Spit IX we have in game.  Considering all the different tweaks that went into the Spit IX in the course of 1942-45, it would be impossible to do it completely right.  If you look at what we have now, it's basically the 42 version in the shape of a mid 44 version.  Based on all the tweaks that went into the Spit IX, if we really wanted to grumble about it we could too, but it seems silly since it's meant to cover such a large number of Spit IXs.

The Spit V guys could really wail if they wanted to as they had a 1943 Spitfire LFVc and lost it, to what seemed like the whines about it, going back to a 1941 Spitfire Vb.  Lost the performance and half the ammo load.

One of the reasons I wanted the Spit Vs in the previous scenario was to fly them against 190A5s.  I wanted to see how they matched up in what was not an MA setting but more of a historical setting.   I remember laughing to myself when it played out exactly like the history.  The 190A5s totally outclassed the Spit Vs as they did for real.  The modelling seemed quite accurate under those circumstances.

Considering how often the 190 is brought up, it seems to fall back on that belief that somehow HTC hasn't done the research.  I'm hard pressed to believe they haven't.  But I also don't believe the LW guys will ever be satisfied with it

Considering they added 600 pounds to my 38G, I should be the one complaining.  I decided to just keep pretending it was a real 38G and that I was a real fighter pilot too