A more accurate damage model.

[Skull_001]

+1

[Noir]

 

[TWC_Angel]

+1!

[Wmaker]

Wow, that's an interesting find regarding the Dora!

WTG for testing it pervert!

I just always thought that damage was so frequent because of the placement of the radiator in general.

Hopefully the radiator's hit area gets looked at. Dora's spinner is huge compared to the overall area we are talking about.

A pic showing the radiators in different Dora subtypes. D-9 has Jumo 213A which can be seen on the left:

[pervert]

I actually filmed it but everytime I play the film to get a screenshot the camera is zooming all over the place wmaker but I filmed it in a custom arena so I do not know if that has anything to do with it   but if count the side profile hits as surface area then you really do have a huge hit zone for the radiator! No wonder it takes radiator hits all the time!

Its debatable even when it takes rounds head on if it hit the spinner if it would deflect of the spinner, or penetrate it? In the former a rad hit would have to be perhaps expected but the latter it would miss it completely. I still do not understand the rad hits from behind which drove me to carry out this test and could not replicate it in the tests with any great frequency, unless it is the ballistics of the plunging round? But shooting the top half of were the radiator is housed results more frequently in an engine oil hit? Shoot the bottom half and it is a pretty consistant rad hit as you would expect.

Just out of curiosity Wmaker is that radiator in 2 halves or a single rad? I would think it mad to have such an achilles heel on a warplane.

[bustr]

Is the spinner's back plate armored? If the backplate is armored is it thick enough to resist a .50 API or ball?

If not, does the 50cal then deflect up and into the radiator and along the reduction gear housing into the engine compartment? Or does the 50cal fragment and it's parts spray around and out into the radiator structures? What happens when a .50API, 20mm AP or 20mm HE or 20mm Minengeschoß hits the spinner or prop roots from the front?

No one has asked why it seems normal to be abel to hit the spinner/radiator with such repeated success in this game opposed to what kind of regional damage mapping is in place. Thats a very small target at the speeds and distances we fight in this game. I suspect the gemans determined that in real life also before putting the radiator in that spot.

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How is the acceptance of damage programed for the frontal crossection at the coordinates describing the spinner, prop, radiator, and engine back to the wing leading edge region of the D9?

if round type xx hits coordinates x, y, z for aircraft 123
 then damage zzz is recorded and
 functions a-z are triggered?

Or is the aircraft mapped in granular damage regions described as a relationship to:

armor factor of region
type of round & destructive nature
angle of entry
velocity at contact
list of damage results for contacted region

Or is the aircraft mapped in All or Nothing damage regions and you are S-O-L getting hit with a BB from spinner tip to wing root?

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Offline when I was performing shooting tests against D9's in the drone circuit. I accomplished a single radiator/oil cooler hit by shooting too far forward from underneath hitting the engine compartment rather than the fuel tank region under the pilot. Hitting the engine region on top or from the side seemed to do no damage and I was inside of 100 on full zoom.

Is damage mapped differently from air to air sources versus from ground to air sources?

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[Wmaker]

Just out of curiosity Wmaker is that radiator in 2 halves or a single rad? I would think it mad to have such an achilles heel on a warplane.

Yes, the radiator was split to left and right halves.

[Ruah]

radiator damage is the most frustrating and poorly modeled parts of the game - which is why I have been using liquid cooled engines less and less. There is no way that any radiator damage should be registered if the opponent is shooting from your da or near 6 - the bullet simply has too much to travel through (and would do a lot more damage <i.e. kill the pilot, take out the engine, etc) to reach the radiator in the front.  

On 109s - both radiators (housed in the inner wing) are modeled for damage, but a hit to either one kills the whole system.  This means that a single ping to your inner wing is an instant dive home or ditch attempt.

I flew the typhoon a fair bit last tour for kicks - and I suffered maybe 3 radiator hits the whole time and never from a stray rear shot.  In a dora, 1 in 5 sorties ends with a radiator hit. . . so far this scenario I have not taken a radiator hit, but I consider myself lucky for that.

Yah. . .back to the sans-radiator plane.

and yes, the radiator was in 2 halves just like in the 109 for redundancy.  In the case of the 190, they were just placed a lot closer.

[pervert]

Thanks guys, I thought it was 2 but only from some user comments I had read elsewhere difficult to find that sort of info 

[Delirium]

How did you test it, Pervert?

[pervert]

How did you test it, Pervert?

Custom arena KOTH map a jeep with a 50 cal shooting one round at a time at zack1234 and cobrajet, they spawned in a FW190 D9 and opened up damage and told me over range vox when they took damage and what it was, when they took a rad hit they respawned. The shots were mainly close range 50 - 100 yds so I could zoom in and be accurate, some of the longer range 1k shots were hampered by low res graphics and it became very hard to put a single 50 cal round accurately on the plane or see where it landed.

Once I seen the spinner was a dead cert hit zone for the rad I drove around taking shots at the spinner from different angles, it doesn't seem to change power on longer distances but the calibre of the round makes a difference, it took 3 rounds of a pilots .45 to get a rad hit were a .50 cal took just one.

[Delirium]

Interesting... would you mind if I did something similar in testing the P38's propensity to suffer pilot wounds?

[pervert]

Red zone is 100% radiator hit
Yellow zone is about 90% for a radiator hit
Blue zone is a toss up between radiator and oil with oil more being more likely than the radiator



Red zone here represents the actually radiator position in the dora.

Visual aids!! while I have photoshop open and the jpeg hoster is working!  

When you paint the hit zones on the dora for the radiator compared to where the radiator actually is you can understand in game why it takes radiator hits so much

[Delirium]

I can understand why shots on the prop hub could spiral into the radiator, particularly when fired at from the front.

[pervert]

Interesting... would you mind if I did something similar in testing the P38's propensity to suffer pilot wounds?

At a guess I would say the head area is modelled as there are shots that result in an instant death and is very hard to hit, failing that from doing tests on the dora anywhere you hit round the cockpit or from behind will result in a pilot wound. I will certainely go in and play test dummy for ya Del, just give me a shout in game, a mouse would probably be more of an advantage for accurate shooting from a 50 cal.

I can understand why shots on the prop hub could spiral into the radiator.

I could live with that as well so long as the angle is correct shooting the tip of the spinner from behind it would be a very magic bullet that would deflect backwards and into the radiator. Also the fact that the radiator is spilt into 2 halves would suggest that it is some sort of margin of fail safe in the event that one of the radiators is punctured similar to the 109's.

How this translates in game flying a Dora constantly is something very irritating, within 2 minutes of getting this radiator hit your engine is dead. When I hear the magic rad hit sound I go all out knowing I have only 2 minutes to vent my fury at the modelling on someone! Take one up yourself and fly it for a few days you'll notice the pattern of rad hits starting to form with depressing frequency