Author Topic: How do pilots know the plane is going to stall?  (Read 3532 times)

Offline Seanaldinho

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Re: How do pilots know the plane is going to stall?
« Reply #75 on: May 01, 2012, 08:53:29 PM »
There was actually a "flare" system in use prior to the introduction of "low" frequency navigation, where the government had employees actually light large bon fires every 30 miles or so. Not sure on the distance between fires, but you get the idea.

Learned about those in Aviation Legislation. I wanna say the first of these routes was Chicago to Denver.

Offline hitech

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Re: How do pilots know the plane is going to stall?
« Reply #76 on: May 02, 2012, 08:25:22 AM »
Using brakes and power it is possible to "back up" in the B-17.  Think about it.....

My guess would be  brake and power on the right side while applying left rudder would cause the left wheel to back up?

HiTech

Offline colmbo

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Re: How do pilots know the plane is going to stall?
« Reply #77 on: May 02, 2012, 09:22:46 AM »
My guess would be  brake and power on the right side while applying left rudder would cause the left wheel to back up?

HiTech

Yep.  Brake and power on same side rotate that wing forward, tail slews back.  It takes a LOT of power, engine can get hot and it's a lot of strain on the main gear -- not recommended but the WWII guys talked about doing it to back into parking spots.
Columbo

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Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" and the warrior whispers back "I AM THE STORM"

Offline Brooke

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Re: How do pilots know the plane is going to stall?
« Reply #78 on: May 02, 2012, 11:33:33 AM »
 Excellent posts, Colmbo and Earl.  Thanks for these!

Offline earl1937

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Re: How do pilots know the plane is going to stall?
« Reply #79 on: May 02, 2012, 02:23:37 PM »
Learned about those in Aviation Legislation. I wanna say the first of these routes was Chicago to Denver.
You could be very right sir! I had read about the Chicago to St Louis as one of the early, if not the first "flare" route. Ever hear of "Barn" signs? The government used to pay farmers in the right locations to paint an arrow on the barn roof, pointing the direction to the closet town. I used to see a lot of "See Rock City" signs on barn tops, but I never saw one with an arrow on it. Mr. Taylor used to talk about the "railroad" maps, showing the different railroad companies routes and etc. He used to laugh about flying IFR,(I follow railroads), before the term IFR meant something else. I think I was born 20 years to late,(1934), that era of flying is appealing to me, barn storming around the country to pick up money and flying the mail in those days, wow!! While I am a product of the golden years of electronics, 55 to 90, pilotage navigating is still appealling as you had to use good judgement and common sense, not to mention the excitement of not knowing what was around the next cloud or mountain. Its really neat to follow your path on the ground using maps, observing objects on the ground as certain "way points", such as drive in theaters, double railroad tracks, water towers with town names on them and completing your flight as planned, especially if you could hit your "ETA" within 5 minutes on a 2 hour flight! Oh, well, back to the old dull GPS systems these days!
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 02:27:04 PM by earl1937 »
Blue Skies and wind at my back and wish that for all!!!

Offline Seanaldinho

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Re: How do pilots know the plane is going to stall?
« Reply #80 on: May 02, 2012, 03:10:25 PM »
You could be very right sir! I had read about the Chicago to St Louis as one of the early, if not the first "flare" route. Ever hear of "Barn" signs? The government used to pay farmers in the right locations to paint an arrow on the barn roof, pointing the direction to the closet town. I used to see a lot of "See Rock City" signs on barn tops, but I never saw one with an arrow on it. Mr. Taylor used to talk about the "railroad" maps, showing the different railroad companies routes and etc. He used to laugh about flying IFR,(I follow railroads), before the term IFR meant something else. I think I was born 20 years to late,(1934), that era of flying is appealing to me, barn storming around the country to pick up money and flying the mail in those days, wow!! While I am a product of the golden years of electronics, 55 to 90, pilotage navigating is still appealling as you had to use good judgement and common sense, not to mention the excitement of not knowing what was around the next cloud or mountain. Its really neat to follow your path on the ground using maps, observing objects on the ground as certain "way points", such as drive in theaters, double railroad tracks, water towers with town names on them and completing your flight as planned, especially if you could hit your "ETA" within 5 minutes on a 2 hour flight! Oh, well, back to the old dull GPS systems these days!

Yeah we read about Barn Signs and the water towers as well. Then VORS and everything comes along.

Offline earl1937

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Re: How do pilots know the plane is going to stall?
« Reply #81 on: May 02, 2012, 04:41:08 PM »
Yep.  Brake and power on same side rotate that wing forward, tail slews back.  It takes a LOT of power, engine can get hot and it's a lot of strain on the main gear -- not recommended but the WWII guys talked about doing it to back into parking spots.
Man, that's a new wrinkle on my horn! I used to see the 3 17's that the state of Georgia used in Albany, Ga in the "fire ant eratification" program back in the late 70's. Of course the maint. people had a tug with a tow bar to move them around. I don't recall who the contractors were that operated the 17's, but they kept them in the air every day. I  would have thought that apply power on #3 and #4, holding right brake, and full left rudder would only produce a 360 degree turn on the ground, not to mention burning up the brake pads on the right main. But, I'll take your word for it!
Blue Skies and wind at my back and wish that for all!!!

Offline colmbo

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Re: How do pilots know the plane is going to stall?
« Reply #82 on: May 02, 2012, 05:30:30 PM »
You use only the outboard engine so that all the thrust is outboard of the maingear leg (which is the pivot point).
Columbo

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" and the warrior whispers back "I AM THE STORM"

Offline Golfer

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Re: How do pilots know the plane is going to stall?
« Reply #83 on: May 02, 2012, 05:31:10 PM »
I'd rather not discuss the specifics on a open forum.
Check PMs.

Is that code for "nothing" or something else?

You're pretty open about flying a DA-42 N Gee whiz and how much you're paying per hour but a simple question warrants secrecy?  Okay.

As far as the airplane talking to you also don't think about wind noise at cruise speeds. Every time you flare even a 172 you'll hear that little whistle as the airflow changes and each airplane sounds a little different.  Another time you'll hear strange sounds and whistles is when you've built some ice and it changes the airflow around all the parts that grow ice when encountered.

The difference in sounds with cowl flap positions, buffet or burbles with flap changes, props being synced having nothing to do with what the tachs say. That last one is annoying because even professionally some people just don't sync the darn things up.  You'll also hear the hydraulic pump running to maintain pressure if thats how that particular system operates, for instance.

Offline colmbo

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Re: How do pilots know the plane is going to stall?
« Reply #84 on: May 02, 2012, 05:38:44 PM »


The difference in sounds with cowl flap positions, buffet or burbles with flap changes

The B-24 has a pronounced buffet if the cowl flaps are too far open.  Most likely turbulent air off #2 and #3 hitting the vertical stabs/rudders.  Story has it a new crew bailed out of a new B-24 somewhere in California shortly after takeoff due to "buffeting"...most likely from cowl flaps that had not been set to "trail" prior to takeoff.

I've run the cowl flaps open to check it out, it is noticeable but I didn't feel I should bail out.   :D
Columbo

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" and the warrior whispers back "I AM THE STORM"

Offline Golfer

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Re: How do pilots know the plane is going to stall?
« Reply #85 on: May 02, 2012, 05:50:39 PM »
Had something like that happen in my second trip as a green Citation FO. Passing through 400' with my brain back at the FBO we were given a 270 degree turn to get headed the direction we wanted to go. Somewhere I missed a call out between being a mile behind the airplane, talking to the voices in my head and turning the altitude select, no wrong switch, course, wrong again, heading bug!  Got it!  Got situated and while the airplane isn't fast in the first place as we started accelerating once we got leveled out there was a little burble growing into a buffet. I was proud of myself for being able to think somewhat rather than just being along for the ride and sheepishly reached for the checklist when I saw the flaps still in the takeoff detent.

I didn't really like the guy I was flying with after he yelled at me for being special needs or whatever he came up with. I came to learn he was wound pretty tight and was easily frazzled web the conversation topic turned to anything other than scuba diving.  Talk about wanting to bail out...

Online Oldman731

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Re: How do pilots know the plane is going to stall?
« Reply #86 on: May 02, 2012, 07:55:45 PM »
Is that code for "nothing" or something else?

You're pretty open about flying a DA-42 N Gee whiz and how much you're paying per hour but a simple question warrants secrecy?  Okay.


MachFly flys planes other than general aviation aircraft.  He has specialized knowledge that is probably classified, or at least sensitive.  So lighten up.

- oldman

Offline Golfer

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Re: How do pilots know the plane is going to stall?
« Reply #87 on: May 02, 2012, 08:26:03 PM »

MachFly flys planes other than general aviation aircraft.  He has specialized knowledge that is probably classified, or at least sensitive.  So lighten up.

- oldman

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I have no doubt it's special knowledge.

Offline MachFly

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Re: How do pilots know the plane is going to stall?
« Reply #88 on: May 02, 2012, 11:35:47 PM »
You're pretty open about flying a DA-42 N Gee whiz and how much you're paying per hour but a simple question warrants secrecy?  Okay.

What I say about the TwinStar can be found online if you do enough research.


MachFly flys planes other than general aviation aircraft.  He has specialized knowledge that is probably classified, or at least sensitive.  So lighten up.

- oldman

It's not classified but there are some thing I'd rather not discuss on an open forum. Just my personal preference.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 11:45:06 PM by MachFly »
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flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, P-47s, and F-4s