Su-27 The Best Fighter In The World

[Tank-Ace]

F16 = US light attack fighter.

Stryker with 105mm L'7 = US light tank/TD


Worst case scenario, I figure we start cranking simplified versions of these things things out in droves.



Its not like the USA is entirely dependent on a few high-tech vehicles. We have have about 8000 M1 Abrams on hand.

[Widewing]

The F-15 came about because the Russian MiG-25 was so superior to US Fighters that a counter was needed and needed quickly. The F-15 arrived and hence the SU-27 and MIG-29 were born, to counter, F-16's and F-22's appeared.

And now the PAK-FA Sukhoi F50 is now in the works. With China building their own J series fighter.

The MiG-25 was fast... Designed to intercept the XB-70. It's speed was its only plus, and it could not outrun missiles. It could not dogfight. Once we got one courtesy of a defection, the US realized that it was very much over-rated by analysts.

Your timeline is in error, moreover, the Russians were in react mode (and still are).

We saw in the Arab-Israeli wars and the two gulf wars that Soviet hardware and doctrine were badly flawed. I don't think they will get smarter... They can't afford the price of keeping up as it is. The Chinese are a generation behind, and I don't expect them to catch up unless we gut our defense budget.

There's two types of Nervous Nellies in this world... Those who believe the sky is falling, and those who believe its falling on them.

 

[Melvin]

  The Chinese are a generation behind, and I don't expect them to catch up unless we gut our defense budget.

This is true.


The coming vote will tell the tale.

[Butcher]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB2GboGOuTI

When the chinese attack it will come from the supplies closet.

[Plawranc]

See Rule #14

[PR3D4TOR]

See Rule #14

[sunfan1121]

See Rule #14

[Rich52]

See Rule #14

[Widewing]

See Rule #14

[Rich52]

See Rule #14

[Squire]

F16 = US light attack fighter.

Well I would argue thats its the main fighter-bomber of the USAF. The reason its so succesfull was that it was designed originally as a small, low cost <gasp> fighter and developed into a very reasonably priced fighter-bomber. Something thats looked down upon by too many now it seems.

Light attack is currently only being used by the USMC in the form of the AV-8B Harrier. The USAF has CAS units with the A-10 despite announcing its impending retirement many times only to drag the beast out for yet another go-round because its so very usefull at what it does best which is blast the bad guys on the ground (very unglamorous but required it seems).

All being replaced by what I stated in my 1st post; very expensive multi-role stealth types like the F-35 and F-22.  There are no light attack planes of any kind in the immediate future of the USAF, and if they didn't have the A-10 no truly dedicated CAS types either.

The Europeans are no better off with them all looking at either F-35 or Eurofighter Typhoon to do-it-all.

We need replacements for the A-4 Skyhawk, Alpha Jet, Hawk, A-10, Jaguar, Harrier to do some light attack/recon/CAS roles. Planes that cost a 1/3rd (or less) of what the nextgen types are looking at for a price tag. Not have every fighter a $$$ multi-role-stealth-superplane. Some basic, uncomplicated attack birds that do not cause a national crisis if one happens to be lost in a shooting war. At the rate air forces are going fighter planes are going to be the same cost as a naval frigate.

How about another Light Weight Fighter Competition? the one that spawned the YF-16 and YF-17 (that turned into the F-18) in the 1st place? that and another low cost CAS type designed for low level ground attack?

Air forces fear budget cuts so they ask for do-it-all types. The danger though is that it is a self fulfilling prophecy. The do-it-alls cost $$$ to make and upkeep and so then they cant afford to buy more than a few hundred looking at the trends. Not every combat plane has to be capable of dogfighting an Su-27 at 60,000 feet. Sometimes you just need to drop 2 500s on a truck convoy and call it a day.

Worst case scenario, I figure we start cranking simplified versions of these things things out in droves

Thats the idea! although you would not get a job in the current defense industry talking "crazytalk" like that. 

[Tank-Ace]

Problem is that the term 'light' and 'CAS' generally don't mix very well.

If its light because they skimp on the armor, then it becomes significantly more vulnerable to ground fire, and hence loitering around to provide CAS isn't smart.

If its light because its a small airframe with limited weapons capacity..... well then I don't see how thats a benefit over upgrading the F-16.

If its light because it lacks a lot of the targeting equipment, all-weather capablity, and some crappy radar set, then you're really just shooting yourself in the foot by preventing it from being able to opperate autonomously.


I'd also like to note that really, nobody has a 'light-CAS' airframe, nobody really has a CAS fighter that can rival the A-10, and virtutally nobody has a dedicated purpose-built light attacker.


Now thats not to say I don't think the idea has merit, just that since nobody has one, the USA isn't at a disadvantage by not having one either. IMO, extend the F-16's wing span and load limit, add on more bomb racks, and call it good.




As for the F-22, I will say that it has a couple advantages over a cheaper figher like the F-16, or the Su-27. Its damn hard to spot on radar, which means it can attack from relative saftey. And second, it can act as an AWACS-lite. While the second doesn't nessicarily make for a good fighter, its probably going to have better survivablity than a regular AWACS due to the stealth.

[Plawranc]

See Rule #4

[danny76]

So all the Russian air force pilots in the world are basically dweebs and noobs?  If we went to war would they cry 'amace pilots' on channel 200?

Actually I just wanted to point out the plane, not those who fly it.  But now I'm curious as to how well the USAF / RAF could implement it.

The RAF would have the opportunity to purchase it, but the British Procurement Agency would drag their feet until the aircraft was a.) obselete, b.) risen exponentially in price or c.) (and most likely...) both.

In the meantime they would sell every aircraft they currently have that are of any use in any current theatre of ops.

Then a large panic would ensue, they would rush to buy the now overpriced, outdated and practically useless aircraft at massive cost. Then admit their costly mistake 5 years, milliona of pounds and many lives later. Immediately to be followed by repeating the same process 6 months on

[Shuffler]

^^

This man has missed the point.

WW2 - 80% of the German casualties in WW2 were sustained against the Soviet Union.

- over half of Japanese military resources were fighting in China.

And yet both of these armies were enough to hold the USA at bay for FOUR.. YEARS.

This statement leaves out so much information.