It Got Bigggg Guns. Me410 on Front Page.

[Babalonian]

Common. it was my first one liner in a longggg time.

If it makes you feel better Grandpa, I noticed. 

[Scherf]

I can see it now, NoSkillDweeb in a 51D, secure in the knowledge that History Teaches Us The 410 Was A Dog, comes in helter-skelter, trying to get there first, spraying and praying. OldVet in a 410 sidesteps, and as NoSkillDweeb turns hard to come back in for the next spray, OldVet clicks the 103s.

Back in the tower, NoSkillDweeb jumps on 200 to whine about how History Teaches Us The 410 Was A Dog.

[Devil 505]

The bomb bay is open on this one. You see the doors partially retract into the fuselage.

(Image removed from quote.)

I didnt say the guns interfered with the doors, I said the guns would interfere with the bombs falling from the bay.

[Butcher]

If there are more then the normal options for the Me-410, simply use the Centerline/Left/Right wing option for extra ords when in fact they are centerline.
How hard is it to figure out?

[Krusty]

Butcher, there are so many possible options that even doing that there's not enough room in the hangar! It was QUITE the versatile platform. Not saying it was effective in all setups, but they sure did build it with flexibility.

[Krusty]

I dont think it should have the option for 8x20mm guns! There should be 2 options for 6x20 one of those being the gondola but there was a 1 of special permission required 8 gun version and only Rudi Dassow flew this plane. He disliked the BK5 so much that he requested permission to outfit his plane.

I've read it was so effective that they began producing it as a kit as well. That is why his setup has the "bulge" underneath -- this is the panel normally associated with the BK5. I still wonder if the real 4x20mm installation was smooth or not.

There is some debate as to whether the 8x setup meant 8x20mm (using a gondola) or is a misunderstanding of 8xGUNS total (counting the 2x MG131). However, I did a profile comparison of the gondola placement superimposed over the 4x installation, and it doesn't seem like it's in the way much.

It's the same with the 110G. You never carried the gondolas with the wing bombs. You never carried 30mms with the gondolas. The gondolas were there after the 4x7mm were removed to bolster forward firepower, but weren't used once the mk108s were installed. Yet we still have it. The loadout by itself is historically proper, but how we mix and match them is up to us (and HTC has explained they won't limit our mixing of historical loadouts as per discussions with the P51 rkts/bombs issue).

Thus it stands to reason if HTC does add it, you could very well make an 8x20mm setup, in-game. Whether the loadouts allow this is more a matter of their personal choice, rather than them intentionally limiting us, I think. Depends on if they have to cut back on loadouts or are just doing some of the basic options or what.

[Vinkman]

Not the trajectory. The random dispersion cone. With the Mk108 most players have problems 200 - 300 yards becasue of the random dispersion. Not the ballistic drop. If all of your MK108 rounds shot the exact same trjectory with the same ballistic drop you would simply put a mark on your gunsight and learn the lead timing for 200 - 300 yards. At 200 yards your drop is about 3 feet and dispersion cone 14 feet. We get to finess that by tilting the barrel up through the engine block in the K4 to flatten out the dispersion and drop cone to about 400 yards. Point and click Gamey as heck. Set your K4 MK108 to 350. See how flat it shoots offline to 400 yards. Remember inside of 200 yards to begine thinking about aiming low. In real life it droped out the tip of the spinner like a lead balloon.

Check this thread for what I'm talking about with the 350yd convergance in the K4:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,332659.90.html

At 500m or close to 600 yards the MK103 dispersion begins to open up because the velocity has dropped well below 700m\sec . Granted, a pair of MK103 will place some number of random rounds  all over the place in 2x14 ft at 380 rounds per minute. The MK108 fires at about 2x that at 600-650 rpm. With runners you begin to have accuracy problems around 600 yards. Unless you are standing off and shooting at a bomber. Then your dispersion is an advantage in getting rounds around the airframe to damage many things.

Don't worry Hitech will probably apply our cartoon world convergence application to the 410 allowing you to dial the MK103 down to lazers at 400 yards using Horizontal and vertical convergence sweet spots. In the real 410, all ganged or paired forward guns were locked parallel and the horizontal convergence was locked for set points at 500, 700, 800 and 900 meters depending on the caliber of the MG or cannon. Just like all HUB mounted cannon were locked into the level line of the engine and it's airscrew shaft.

MK103 at 500m dispersion 14ft - drop 6.6ft.
MK103 at 900m dispersion 29ft - drop 25ft <----kind of the problem you have hitting anything past 1000yds with a 37mm gun.
MK108 at 400m dispersion 30ft - drop 12ft

MA furball distances.

MK103 at 200m dispersion 4ft - drop 1ft.
MK103 at 300m dispersion 7.5ft - drop 2ft
MK108 at 200m dispersion 14ft - drop 2.7ft

Too bad many players in this game ignor the math and science Hitech and Pyro have to learn to create this matrix. It's all kentuky windage and piu, piu, piu to most.

Dispersion is modeled. There is nothing a pilot can do to compensate for dispersion is there? Or are you saying it's not supposed to be random, but rather always off in a predictable way based on bullet rotation? [and angle of attack perhaps?]. If so is there a formula that discribes the resulting force on the round as a function of Spin rate and forward velocity?

If it's random, what can be learned? 

[W7LPNRICK]

twist drift at distance is even effected by the earth rotation, is not random, but calculation anything useful from it would be impossible IMO. One bullet w/ 20 minutes and a trig calculator maybe, but not with machine guns & every bullet starting at it's own place in atmosphere & time.... Not even Mark Walburg could make any sense out of it....

[PR3D4TOR]

Gyroscopic drift and Coriolis acceleration effects are small in comparison to other factors. The shell starts out with its spin axis aligned with its velocity vector. As the trajectory progresses, gravity accelerates the shell down, introducing a component of velocity toward the ground. By weathervaning the shell will follow the velocity vector, which is a nose-down torque. The spin axis reacts by moving 90 degrees from the applied force, in the direction of rotation. This effect is most prominent after the shell has slowed down to sub-sonic speed and drops off rapidly. So the more velocity a gun impart in the shell, the longer the gyroscopic drift is postponed.

I'm really looking forward to trying out this new Messerschmitt.

[Raptor05121]

Gyroscopic drift and Coriolis acceleration effects are small in comparison to other factors. The shell starts out with its spin axis aligned with its velocity vector. As the trajectory progresses, gravity accelerates the shell down, introducing a component of velocity toward the ground. By weathervaning the shell will follow the velocity vector, which is a nose-down torque. The spin axis reacts by moving 90 degrees from the applied force, in the direction of rotation. This effect is most prominent after the shell has slowed down to sub-sonic speed and drops off rapidly. So the more velocity a gun impart in the shell, the longer the gyroscopic drift is postponed.

[PR3D4TOR]

 

[Volron]

 

[SWkiljoy]

 

[Butcher]

[Wmaker]

The MK103 loadout is quite heavy. The guns and ammo alone weigh just short of 1000lbs and then there's the steel frame they are mounted to, ammo boxes, air pressure bottles and other equipment. To put it into perspective, those 200 MK103 30mm rounds alone weigh roughly the same as the 400 rounds and the two 20mm cannons of the WB151 cannon tray.