Me-4210 versus P-61

[Tank-Ace]

Not suprised, given Krusty's attitude to 99% of threads. But what do you mean 'false equivalence'?



*EDIT*

And thanks, I think you've given my my next wishlist thread, after the Panzer III one dropps of the top page.

[lyric1]

IDK, Hitech might have said, "we're adding the Mk 103, you guys want to add the Ju-87's BK-37 along with it?".


I'm not saying thats what happened, just that I wouldn't faint with shock if they came out and said the 410 gave the 87-G a jump start.

  If I recall HTC said along the lines of all other projects in process would be done prior to the 410.

[Karnak]

Here is the link to my thread, if you would like to peruse it:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,314784.0.html

[Butcher]

I listed the Ju88P as one I wanted in a Wishlist thread wherein I got savaged by Krusty for false equivalence.

A few times the night fighter version of the Ju-88 has been asked for, each time the thread gets shot down over the "Schräge Musik" discussion.

[Karnak]

A few times the night fighter version of the Ju-88 has been asked for, each time the thread gets shot down over the "Schräge Musik" discussion.

Not all Ju88 nightfighters had Schrage Musik, and even if it had it I don't really see a problem with that.

[Butcher]

Not all Ju88 nightfighters had Schrage Musik, and even if it had it I don't really see a problem with that.

Typical installations
Dornier Do 217N: 4 × 20 mm MG 151/20
Focke-Wulf Fw 189: 1 × 20 mm MG151/20 (used mainly on Eastern Front)
Heinkel He 219: 2 × 30 mm MK 108
Junkers Ju 88C/G: 2 × 20 mm MG 151/20
Junkers Ju 388J: 2 × 30 mm MK 108
Messerschmitt Bf 110G-4: 2 × 20 mm MG FF/M

Sounds like a few planes used it, I don't see why it shouldn't be added assuming some aircraft like the Ju 88 get upgraded or Bf110.

[Krusty]

False equivelance is his way of obfuscating the issue: He was making up his own totally arbitrary comparisons and saying every Ju-88 needed an exact counterpart Mossie, and vice versa. A false comparison to try to lobby for something -- when no such equivelant was needed. Further, the Ju-88, while quite versatile, was very limited in big-gun setups. Most proved dangerous to the plane itself, and none were very widespread.

Much like several other airframes in the war, the Ju-88 was a testbed for nearly any and every weapon in the war. That doesn't mean they were successful or even serialized.


P.S. Many/most of the corrections added to the Me210 were already in place by at least end of 1941. Depending on how you lobby it, a lesser-powered version of the 410 was already flying in what we would call "Early War".

[Drano]

Id like to see the P61 

Then go to Reading! There's one in the hangar. Mostly anyway.

[HighTone]

I hope that after the 410 - and the 410 will be what we get - HiTec will be kind enough to look at some early and mid war birds.  Things like the Lagg3 and the Ki43, planes that will never win any open popular vote here where more fantasy power planes are proposed.  the 61 may have seem nice, but I think there is a good reason it was used more as a night fighter, and only used as a daylight raider after there was no air opposition.  To me, all these sorts of planes cannot be truly relevant in the marginal utility choice unless the 'ords issue' is resolved - that is the fighter carrying the 2x1000pound payload.

I'd vote for that pair 

[icepac]

Wouldn't mind a Ju88s1

[Karnak]

Krusty,

You are now, and were then, reading far, far more seriousness into my rough comparisons than was ever intended, thus the false equivalence claim.  It was never a scholarly comparison, just a fun beer and pretzels comparison.

[tunnelrat]

I listed the Ju88P as one I wanted in a Wishlist thread wherein I got savaged by Krusty for false equivalence.

Awww man, Ju-88P would be awesome!!!

[Tank-Ace]

Yeah, I Krusty, I gotta agree with Karnak on this one. Ive read the thread, and I really don't see anywhere where he said that each listed pair was an exact equivilant and where if we get one we need the other.



Really, I took it as a Mossy "x" sorta kinda = Ju-88 "X".

[drgondog]

My father had the 325th FG at Hamilton last part of 1947 before he became Gp CO of 35th FBW at Johnson AFB in Japan.

The 325th had P-61s as long range day/night/all weather interceptors with turret stripped - before being replaced with F-82s in 1948.  He liked the P-61's manueverability very much for such a big airplane ad once mused that he would prefer a 51 to the P-61 but never, never get in a turning fight with it.  He said the 51 had more energy and options but the 61 could easily turn inside for a shot for at least a half circle. 

He once flew the PR version of the P-61C and was really impressed with its performance.. but it too fell short of the P/F-82 in comparison as an all weather interceptor.

[Shuffler]

Me-410 was much more significant airplane in WWII than the P-61. It seems that at the time, many were not so impressed with the P-61, especially due to its top speed. The Wikipedia source blames the Brits for painting a comparison with the mosquito in pink colors so they would not have to give up any mosquitoes to the USAAF:

The P-61 was developed to turn the tide of night time raids. Top speed is not as important at night as the incursions were by planes that were not really fast. It was actually a problem if your closing speed was too fast at night.

By the time the P-61s made it into the field the night incursions had all but stopped. They were used mainly for other tasks which they filled the bill for nicely.