Changing of the Guard Frame 1 - What Downdraft?

[Pand]

In tonight's FSO, the Arena settings sent were:

Arena Settings:
- New Britain Map
- Fuel burn 1.0
- Icons (3k)
- 0.3 Ack
- Fighter and Bomber warning range 105,600 (20 miles)
- Tower range set to 105,600
- Haze/fog /full visibility (17 Miles)
- No Dot Dar
- Enemy Collisions On - Friendly Collisions Off
- Killshooter off - Time: 11:00 AM
--Air Starts at 24K
- Bomber Calibration: Manual
-Winds: Down Draft at 25K

As escort we climbed to 24,900 (since CAP was 25K) in our A6M3s to protect our Bettys that were around 23K.  About 30 miles from target we were jumped by 10-12 F4U-1s at 30K+.  They absolutely obliterated ALL the bombers in a matter of minutes and 99% of the escort.  Apparently, there was no downdraft and the Corsairs could climb as high as they liked.

We love FSO and thank you all for the time you have put into arranging these fights; however, if there are rules in place that we are expected to follow, then we expect them to be followed by all. 

It is obvious why the 25K CAP was designed into this FSO.  If there are changes to the rules identified, then they should be communicated accordingly. 

Thanks! <S>

[Butcher]

They absolutely obliterated ALL the bombers in a matter of minutes and 99% of the escort. 
Thanks! <S>

Sounds like something topgun would do, but we also ran into Zekes at 26-28k, secondly there was NOTHING in the orders saying "ALT CAP limit" only winds down draft at 25k.

We also ran into zekes well above 25k, so clearly it was either misread or misunderstood.

[Pand]

We did climb into the fight when we saw cons at 30K+.

[Shifty]

There was no downdraft in the design just like there were no airstarts. Here's what the setup says.
I don't know how some people are seeing airstarts and downdrafts. There was no set altitude CAP distance and time to target is your alt CAP.

Scoring:
All fighter aircraft and single engined bombers = 5 pts
All twin engined bombers=15 pts
Vehicle Hangar = 25 pts
Fighter Hangar = 25 pts
Bomber Hangar = 25 pts
All other base structures gun positions and strat buildings 2 pts each
Destroyers= 30 pts
Cruisers= 50 pts
Safe landing bonus 5 points per plane.
Arena Settings:
- New Britain Map
- Fuel burn 1.0
- Icons (3k)
- 0.3 Ack
- Fighter and Bomber warning range 105,600 (20 miles)
- Tower range set to 105,600
- Haze/fog /full visibility (17 Miles)
- No Dot Dar
- Enemy Collisions On - Friendly Collisions Off
- Killshooter off - Time: 11:00 AM
- Bomber Calibration: Manual
- Winds: Calm

I don't know if there's a glitch in the website or if some people see it because they haven't refreshed their browsers in a bit. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[Butcher]

I asked before event started and it was specifically said No alt CAP only down winds, usually they always tell you "ALT CAP LIMIT" specifically.

[Shifty]

I asked before event started and it was specifically said No alt CAP only down winds, usually they always tell you "ALT CAP LIMIT" specifically.

Who did you ask?
Plus if there is no alt cap why would there be down winds designed into it to force one?

I'm not asking to be a smartazz I'm asking so we can avoid this kind of thing in the future.
 

[Butcher]

Who did you ask?
Plus if there is no alt cap why would there be down winds designed into it to force one?

I'm not asking to be a smartazz I'm asking so we can avoid this kind of thing in the future.
 

Usually its written like this:
Downwinds at a certain alt - sometimes its been upwinds, it simply means in my opinion I guess - climbing over the target alt gives a huge drop in Speed/climbrate keeping planes centered around a certain alt, but not limited - upwinds draft has been used in the Africa Korp FSO's
ALT CAP Limit - usually is a set alt say 25k that has -127 mph down winds that forces any plane at 25,000ft downward to keep them at a designated ALT, although its more harsh to do it this way it is for certain to keep an ALT limit.

It's always been well written to explain if there is a simple downwind or Alt Cap limit.

[Butcher]

There was no downdraft in the design just like there were no airstarts. Here's what the setup says.
I don't know how some people are seeing airstarts and downdrafts. There was no set altitude CAP distance and time to target is your alt CAP.

Scoring:
All fighter aircraft and single engined bombers = 5 pts
All twin engined bombers=15 pts
Vehicle Hangar = 25 pts
Fighter Hangar = 25 pts
Bomber Hangar = 25 pts
All other base structures gun positions and strat buildings 2 pts each
Destroyers= 30 pts
Cruisers= 50 pts
Safe landing bonus 5 points per plane.
Arena Settings:
- New Britain Map
- Fuel burn 1.0
- Icons (3k)
- 0.3 Ack
- Fighter and Bomber warning range 105,600 (20 miles)
- Tower range set to 105,600
- Haze/fog /full visibility (17 Miles)
- No Dot Dar
- Enemy Collisions On - Friendly Collisions Off
- Killshooter off - Time: 11:00 AM
- Bomber Calibration: Manual
- Winds: Calm

I don't know if there's a glitch in the website or if some people see it because they haven't refreshed their browsers in a bit. Sorry for the inconvenience.

This is exactly what I see, plus my FSO orders itself says:
ARENA SETTINGS:

- Fuel burn 1.0
- Icons (3k)
- 0.3 Ack
- Fighter and Bomber warning range 105,600 (20 miles)
- Tower range set to 105,600
- Haze/fog /full visibility (17 Miles)
- No Dot Dar
- Enemy Collisions On - Friendly Collisions Off
- Formations On
- Killshooter off - Time: 11:00 AM
- Bomber Calibration: Manual

[Pand]

I asked before event started and it was specifically said No alt CAP only down winds, usually they always tell you "ALT CAP LIMIT" specifically.

If anyone has flown into a 25K downdraft before, its a definite limiter.

I don't have anything against anyone climbing if the game allows them to.  It had clearly indicated a 25K downdraft, and without it, basically created a turkey shoot for the Allies.   This was not an enjoyable experience for us assigned escort duty on Axis.

[Shifty]

Usually its written like this:
Downwinds at a certain alt - sometimes its been upwinds, it simply means in my opinion I guess - climbing over the target alt gives a huge drop in Speed/climbrate keeping planes centered around a certain alt, but not limited - upwinds draft has been used in the Africa Korp FSO's
ALT CAP Limit - usually is a set alt say 25k that has -127 mph down winds that forces any plane at 25,000ft downward to keep them at a designated ALT, although its more harsh to do it this way it is for certain to keep an ALT limit.

It's always been well written to explain if there is a simple downwind or Alt Cap limit.

Who did you ask about alt cap and who told you there was a downdraft?  That was my question. I know how it is written when there is a alt cap or down draft. Like I said there was no alt cap set. If some people are seeing it in the writeup and some are not we need to find out why so this kind of mixup doesn't happen again. Apparently the website seems to be showing two different things. If you don't mind and if you have time check out the writeup at ahevents.org  Do you see an alt cap or down draft or airstarts? Because if it shows on your end and not on mine this needs to be fixed immediatly and we need to figure out whats causing it. Pand cut and pasted from the site like I did, and we have two different things. That is the real problem.

[climber]

Its usually good practice to check the arena settings a few minutes before take off.  There have been times in the past where the writeup will say one thing but the actual arena settings (thanks HTC for giving us the chance to see actual arena settings while in them) are different.  I always double check both the winds (be sure to look at all alt levels) and the burn multiplier.  There has also been times where the arena may not have been set up correctly and then fixed right before launch or soon after launch (like tonight with the dar bars).  If this is the case it is clearly noted in the text buffer (again like tonight).

Like anything else on the internet... don't always take it as the gospel.


<S>

-Climber

[branch37]

I think it was in the Arena message about the downdraft.  Dont hold me to that but I remember reading it somewhere.

[Pand]

This is exactly what I see, plus my FSO orders itself says:

Shifty, In the orders I received from CiC it showed a downdraft at 25K.   It was a direct copy/paste in my OP.

Obviously there was some confusion in the orders sent out across Axis and Allies.

[Shifty]

I see you already did Butcher

Thanks!

[Butcher]

Who did you ask about alt cap and who told you there was a downdraft?  That was my question. I know how it is written when there is a alt cap or down draft. Like I said there was no alt cap set. If some people are seeing it in the writeup and some are not we need to find out why so this kind of mixup doesn't happen again. Apparently the website seems to be showing two different things. If you don't mind and if you have time check out the writeup at ahevents.org  Do you see an alt cap or down draft or airstarts? Because if it shows on your end and not on mine this needs to be fixed immediatly and we need to figure out whats causing it. Pand cut and pasted from the site like I did, and we have two different things. That is the real problem.

The Down winds was posted RIGHT before we took off, I can't remember who changed it but it was posted openly about it being changed, I would say 2-5 minutes before take off.
I can't remember if it was you or someone else, frankly I didn't pay much attention - I only asked on country if it was an ALT cap and no CIC/etc answered about it.

All I remember it said "Downwinds 25k", in Blue color or maybe orange lettering from the server side.