Author Topic: Cooling engines at different altitudes  (Read 1601 times)

Offline colmbo

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Re: Cooling engines at different altitudes
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2012, 08:26:15 PM »
     Is it also possible they say this because it is a known condition that could potentially, theoretically, possibly, maybe cause damage and they want to distance themselves from blame if there ever is an issue?  (i.e. we told you so)

I think they are being conservative to help reduce their liability.

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     Other then the concept of the idea I don't really understand shock cooling, however maybe this is really only an issue of ultra high performance engines, even beyond what a typical ww2 aircraft were using?

The common "hangar talk" is that shock cooling is a vile demon that will instantly damage your engine.  Some think that it's possible to crack a cylinder by pulling the engine to idle...I challenge anyone to go out and prove that "shock cooling" cracked the cylinder.

Trainer aircraft like the 150/152 have their engines abused constantly by inexperienced student pilots.  Mash the throttle in for takeoff, turn downwind and pull the throttle back to low power for the touch and go ---- thousands of those cycles every year.  If what the nay sayers preach was true you'd be constantly replacing cylinders.  The FBO/flight school I worked at had engines consistently go 2 or 3 times normal TBO before needing overhaul.  Of course there would be the occasional cylinder change over overhaul at less than TBO, but not what you would expect from the treatment the engines receive.

In a jump operation I flew for we had two 182s.  The other airplane was flown by a "throttle jock".  Big burst of power to start taxiing, jam the throttle in for takeoff, minimal warmup time, abrupt power changes in flight, shut down at high idle.  We did 4 cylinder changes on in one season on that airplane.

The airplane I was flying I treated it as an engine should be.  Adequate warmup, smooth/gentle power changes.  No engine work that year or the next.  I bought the airplane and changed the engine out at 2800 hours (normal TBO 1500 hours).

Far more shock damage occurs to an engine on takeoff than landing IMO. 
Columbo

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" and the warrior whispers back "I AM THE STORM"

Offline icepac

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Re: Cooling engines at different altitudes
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2012, 10:00:09 AM »
Adequate warmup is the big one.

Most engine damage is caused by the yahoos like the one Colmbo mentioned and I would guess that someone as clueless as to romp a dead cold engine might be able to hurt a WWII engine since the planes were not fully idiot proof but proper usage should not cause any undue stress.

Be careful what you wish for concerning adding engine management issues because it might open an advantage for someone who is well versed at it as compared to someone who has no experience (most here).

The first volkswagen prototype experienced shock cooling causing a valve seat to fall after cresting a mountain but it's possible that it had been overheated on the way up.

Dr. Porsche took it apart at a hotel, wedged a feeler gauge between the seat and head, snapped it off, put it back together, and drove it for a few months that way.

It was the first prototype so the cooling of this engine had not been optimized.

It was never experienced again.

I've seen plenty of aircooled VWs navigating the mountains in the west and never heard of one getting shock cooled.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2012, 10:10:33 AM by icepac »

Offline colmbo

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Re: Cooling engines at different altitudes
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2012, 01:44:52 PM »
Something you do have to be mindful of on a radial is cooling it to quickly can cause a valve and/or valve pushrod to stick.
Columbo

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" and the warrior whispers back "I AM THE STORM"