Some words from 9./JG 54 Staffelkapitän

[Creamo]

I will say evertime I actually found a way to shoot down Nath, it was a internet error resulting in me warping and I apologise. That didnt seem fair ever damn time I got near Nath, my IP just went to hell. Sorry man.

And the ack, evertime Nath got in it, it was 100% lethal. Seems unfair as I can usually avoid it.

I was online when he got booted, and I never saw anyone beg so much to egg on Hitech. I didnt think it was much, but yes, he BEGGED to piss off Hitech.

Oh well, as long as it's not a R4metz trilogy of drama. Hell be back, answering BBS questions like KEP to himself, and really, WHO GIVES A F#k?

[Udie]

Santa,
 About the community,  I've seen some remarks that I didn't like and I've seen some that suprised me with their clarity (your's for example).  I've also seen many/most as kinds that I would expect to see in this type of situation, but everything I've seen has been with in the relm of what I would call "normal community behavior" in any gaming community I've belonged to.  I think it must be a human thing.  Alot of people didn't respect him, or hated him so much they couldn't respect him.  They are happy he's gone.  I can't blame them for that because I'm happy towd is gone    Now your squad should have a few more targets on the list of targets that make you feal real good when you kill them   Nath was on my list as are you Santa   (not in a bad way Santa)

 In any case I am sorry to see your squad and AH lose such a good stick.  I didn't like him that much as a person, but I did have enormous respect for him as a virtual pilot. He was next on my duel list in the ladder when I had to drop out because of stick problems, just after Cit handed me my first loss in the ladder. I was realy worried that Nath was going to give me my 2nd losss too.  I'd realy hate to see more of JG54 leave AH because of this too, but I can understand how friendship would force some to do that. That being said I understand why HT did what he did and support his decision.  BUT I also hope that maybe they'll give the kid a 2nd chance, or 3rd if he already had his 2nd.  Has Nath expressed any "regret" to you, his squadmates?

 Cya later today in the senario  


Udie

[Beurling]

I never found nath to be a good player.

Nath was a loudmouth when he lost. His skill is far less than some of you seem to feel in my opinion.

Still i feel he got a raw deal. Give him a time out. A day a week a month whatever. The guy was anoying but the worst i have seen in AH WB or AW? No way not even close.

This guy /teenager was and is still down for this game big time. Its too bad he will have to find another ccard number to play.

Whenthinking about this guy i think its safe to say people mellow with age.  How you act trying to kill every ace on the way up is not how you act when you think you have made it to the top.
With all the good players here im sure you all remember when you were scratching and clawing to the top?
Part of his prob was that oldtimers wont give the new hotstick anything. No respect no nothing. This leads to new guys argueing on ch1 just to get a little respect. Its the "Hey look at me" syndrome.


Eye

[airspro]

Hey StSanta :

When I was a young guy , was hanging out at the local gas station ( 1972   )and started harassing the pump jocky . Well he's was one big dude and liked to fight at the bar etc . He was a friend too but , one too many times I bugged him  

Now in real life I ended up pushed up on the wall of the station , he didn't hit me TG but I sure did learn my lesson .

Well sounds like Nath got a lesson too , hope he learns from it . I sure do remember "my lesson" .

Sincerely
spro

PS: Only got to shoot down the bugger once but I sure do remember it like it was yesterday . New I had made another step up in my learning curve   Yep Nath u were worth 2.50 perk points , TY again  

His reply =

was funny , <S> and yes I was in a 109f4  

If you read this , hope u do the right thing and get back so I can do it again , "maybe"

------------------
air_rules = Play fair ....Don't worry about points......Keep a sense of humor......Drink Jim Beam......and don't let the fediddlein cat walk on the keyboard.......!!!http://www.airsquadron.com" TARGET=_blank>
             

[This message has been edited by airspro (edited 04-07-2001).]

[Vladd]

 

Originally posted by StSanta:
Vladd: I'm a bigtime and longtime Sisters fan. Got all their records and tons of bootlegs   .

Saw them at the 20th anniversary gig in York a few months back, and it was superb. If you ever travel to watch them in England, let me know  

Vladd

[funked]

I agree with StSanta that Nath has a some good parts of his personality that most people don't see.  I have had some very entertaining chats with him, about this game and others, and military history topics, and he has sent me some really cool info.  

I think a lot of the problems he as here stem from some bad habits he picked up in other less "civilized" games where people don't treat people like people.  He knows this and is trying to work on it.  Obviously he is not 100% successful.    

I hope that the recent incident will help him with this, and maybe he will come back and show the better side of his personality to more people than just those who go out of their way to find it.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-07-2001).]

[Yeager]

I suspected as much funked.  Somehow I liked nath but it was against my better judgement.

I hope he does make it back and can be a positive force in the game.

Y

[skernsk]

Santa I too would hae backed any one of my squad members..even Animal  

I was very sick of Nath and his attitude.  I also have no good memories of Nath....I guess you could say the only way I "know" him is from channel 1.  

I think we all need a break (Nath included) and I'm sure he will be allowed back.  He has already proven he can fly.....it will be up to him to prove that he can STAY.

[Staga]

Somehow I don't think he is coming back soon... Thought I'm sure were going to see him in another MMPG, hopefully soon.
 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/009149.html

[paintmaw]

<SALUTE> I respect Loyalty .
cut nath a break , perma bann without a tempa bann is cruel .
this post is not ment to be a personal attack
 

[-tronski-]

 Funny thought squelch option was something that was more appropiate...
 
 As for the 'new' customers, not sure what kind of plastic fantastic people are out there..But one would hope they have a little more backbone than to get offended by a little razzing...
 Nath hasn't even come close to the language and attitude that can be seen on a regular game of Counterstrike.

 Good luck lads on getting your squaddie back.

 Tronsky
 486 Sqn (NZ), "hiwa hau maka"

 

[Dead Man Flying]

 

Originally posted by paintmaw:
<SALUTE> I respect Loyalty .
cut nath a break , perma bann without a tempa bann is cruel .

Paint, I absolutely agree with you here.  HTC was and is lacking an established protocol for dealing with problems like the one here.  While the Terms of Service grant HTC the right to terminate any account for any reason, HTC must avoid the appearance of arbitrariness.

I have yet to see an explanation that goes beyond HiTech needing to "assert [his] authority" in the main arena.  Was Nath banned for a brief period of time to consider (excluding the brief and easily-negated mute function) his actions?  Why the instant and permanent ban except to make an example of him?  Why the dogmatic insistence on maintaining this ban at all costs?

I'd be less bothered by this if there was some sort of precedent.  There isn't.  If this is the way to start one, it's amateurish at best and pathetic at worst.

To be honest, what bothers me the most is hearing many members of the community graciously thanking HTC for doing what they themselves could not do... controlling and/or ignoring Nath.  Hobbes smiles down on all of you today.

-- Todd/DMF

[Kieran]

Todd-

Food for thought...

If it was me in this situation (and you know, I AM occasionally in this situation) I would have to consider a few things. First and foremost I have to consider that the person has rights, and is a human being. I then pull them aside privately and talk with them. I state clearly that the behavior has gone too far and will no longer be tolerated. I then release them with a warning. They go on for a while, then have another flare up. Since it has been some time since the last incident I consider that warning worked the first time, so I warn again, privately. This time the person has gotten the message that I really don't want to expel them (true) and decides to take things a bit farther. Emboldened they then push harder and harder. Warnings come and go, and soon it becomes obvious that nothing is going to work except expulsion.

Throughout the process the intent was to protect the person and the community as well. All contact has been private. There has been no need to discuss this matter as a public matter, so it wasn't. When the axe finally does fall, it is necessarily public. This is when everyone comes in and second-guesses the way you handled it. They don't know there was a lot of history behind that decision, or are so blinded by other factors they don't care.

It's like this: HTC did try to handle this privately before in a related topic with this individual, I know this for a fact. I also know that some will take my preceding words and find a way to convolute a way in which HTC is still responsible because they couldn't somehow make people behave- but isn't that the point?

HTC shouldn't have to teach you how to behave.

If anyone would like to see how difficult it is to get a problem child out of a classroom, read this topic and study its mechanations carefully. This has been extremely analagous, let me tell you...

[Toad]

I have a question:

"...hasn't even come close to the language and attitude that can be seen on a regular game of Counterstrike."

Is this to be the standard then?

If so, I'll be the one moving on.

The "Counterstrike" atmosphere on most servers is not something I enjoy. While my 16 year old played it quite a while, I finally erased it from the HD. I certainly didn't want him assuming that the social interaction and social "skills"   displayed are in anyway considered "normal" or acceptable in my opinion.  

Behavior that would be considered acceptable or even a bit "over the top" in any rowdy bar in the world would most likely pass without comment here in HTC's world. It already does, in my experience.

Those that go beyond such acceptability ...not once, not twice but multiple times.... after being warned about it are running a risk of expulsion.

HTC did not cause this situation. As the business owners, they were forced to react to it.

Don't lose sight of the fact that the type of community provided by HTC is the real issue here.

Perhaps a community akin to the "regular game of Counterstrike" is what some of you seek. It is most certainly not what I seek.

Perhaps that is not the goal of HTC, either.

Who then is responsible for such behavior? The person doing it.

Who then is accountable for such behavior?
The person doing it.

Responsibility. Accountability.

The attempt to shift the cause away from the originator of the problem is a wasted effort, IMO.

Can there be redemption and restoration? I would like to think so.

[Replicant]

Damn, I never knew StSanta and Vladd (!!!) liked The Sisters Of Mercy!    Kewl!
 

Regards

Nexx