Author Topic: What does acceleration give you?  (Read 618 times)

Offline Kovel

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What does acceleration give you?
« on: October 11, 2012, 11:03:40 AM »
Very confused about how acceleration  affects a fight between 2 different planes.

Let's say you are in the plane with better acceleration:

¿Can you use it to rope & dope? I would think that the edge here is dictated by the climb rate.

¿Can you use it to dive faster and create a gap? I would think that the edge here are the aerodynamics and the plane weights (i.e. F4u)

¿Can you use it to gain angles in a stall fight? I would think that the edge here is the wingload and the benefits of flaps.

So, the only area where I can see that acceleration can help you is to create speed faster once you are very slow and get some vital distance....but...if the other plane has worse acceleration but is faster (i.e. 190 vs P51) It will only provide you some seconds of life until he catches you up.

So, Am I correct?

Can acceleration make the difference in any other area that I can't see ?

Thnks in advance

(S)
" I personally led the attack to A1" - Pipz

Offline VonMessa

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Re: What does acceleration give you?
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2012, 11:09:28 AM »
Very confused about how acceleration  affects a fight between 2 different planes.

Let's say you are in the plane with better acceleration:

¿Can you use it to rope & dope? I would think that the edge here is dictated by the climb rate.

¿Can you use it to dive faster and create a gap? I would think that the edge here are the aerodynamics and the plane weights (i.e. F4u)

¿Can you use it to gain angles in a stall fight? I would think that the edge here is the wingload and the benefits of flaps.

So, the only area where I can see that acceleration can help you is to create speed faster once you are very slow and get some vital distance....but...if the other plane has worse acceleration but is faster (i.e. 190 vs P51) It will only provide you some seconds of life until he catches you up.

So, Am I correct?

Can acceleration make the difference in any other area that I can't see ?

Thnks in advance

(S)

Almost like the tortoise and the hare.

Better acceleration will get you to your plane's top speed quicker that the other guy.  If all other variables are even, he will eventually catch up to you, but it can be a huge advantage in addition to using the torque of a better accelerating aircraft to your advantage (throttle on when turning same direction as engine and throttle down when going opposite).  This is a fast and dirty explanation.

A good experiment is to take a 109 K4 out and see how many folks you can hang from their prop before they choke in a vertical fight.

I'm sure there are others with much better explanations than I have offered.
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Offline Hap

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Re: What does acceleration give you?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2012, 03:42:47 PM »
So, the only area where I can see that acceleration can help you is to create speed faster once you are very slow and get some vital distance....but...if the other plane has worse acceleration but is faster (i.e. 190 vs P51) It will only provide you some seconds of life until he catches you up.

Kovel, most of my fun in AH has to do with hauling bombs and rockets to an enemy base to destroy stuff that stays down and helps capture a field.  I do a fair amount of running away after I've successfully done my work, in hopes of regaining alt to help a 2nd or 3rd time during the same sortie.  Flying low and slow around an enemy field is not my idea of fun.

Over the years, I've paid attention to on the deck speeds of aircraft.  There's only a handful of hot rods.  The rest settle in at 350 tas or less on the deck.  Given co-everything, which rarely happens, the question is can I out run this guy?  Or, will he run me down?

Acceleration is part of it, and a big part, if you get slow.  I try to avoid that.  And if you are near a red field, there's going to be lots more of them, frequently, than you and your green buddies. 

I guess it's how you fly and what sort of jams you find yourself in repeatedly.  For giggles, look at dar when 3 to 5 of your country's folk fly to an red airfield and mentally time how long it takes them to die.  It's an eye opener. 

I'm sure acceleration has advantages.  I try to avoid those situations where such an advantage becomes critical.  Again, I look at terminal airspeed on the deck as a rule of thumb.  But some planes, like the Hog, can hold their speed for good bit of time before they slow up.

Lastly, find your ride's sweet spot with wep on and wep off as it pertains to true airspeed.

Hope that helps.  And know that most planes will do over 500 tas with enough air to dive through.  So me toddling around at 400 tas, still I have to watch for a Spit 5 zipping my way.

Offline Wiley

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Re: What does acceleration give you?
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2012, 04:11:36 PM »
One of the more important aircraft capabilities, is how fast does it build E?  Most of the time I live and die by whether I have enough E to be able to do what I want to at the right time.

Acceleration and climb rate go hand in hand in most cases, which means in a fight with a slower accelerating/worse climbing opponent, you should have an easier time getting an E advantage over him.  You can stay nose up better/longer, and when you go level after the climb you pick up speed faster.  Once you have more E, you have more options than the other guy.  At that point, it's often just a matter of time until you are able to connect with a shot.

Wiley.
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Offline Big Rat

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Re: What does acceleration give you?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2012, 06:06:33 PM »
One of the more important aircraft capabilities, is how fast does it build E? 

Wiley.

This is exactly how faster acceleration becomes an advantage.  Speed is options, the faster I can gain speed the faster I gain more options.  A good example would be take a K4 and a F4U-1a.  Launch them off the same runway from a dead stop.  Both planes can pull an immelman at 150-160 mph+ indicated.  Which one will be able to pull this move first, K4 obviously with much superior acceleration. It'll hit 200 around the time the 1a hits 150.  How does this translate in a dog fight?  Simple, the verticle will become an option to the K4 much quicker if both planes are slow.  One who owns the high ground, controls most aspects of the fight.  Planes with high acceleration have lots of options quickly and often, this makes them deadly once the fights get to slower speeds.

 :salute
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: What does acceleration give you?
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2012, 06:24:02 PM »
Acceleration gets you up to speed faster. This means you will get some not inconsiderable seperation depending on the aircraft involved , even if you have a lower top speed.

You can build up speed faster, and use that speed to initiate a zoom climb which your opponent (being at a lower speed) likely can't follow (again, depending on the aircraft).

Acceleration could theoretically help you in a dive, although your diving ability is determined more by your aircraft's stuctural limits and high-speed handling than by dive speed and acceleration in a dive. The 109K, for example, accelerates like a banshee, even in a dive compared to other aircraft. IIRC, only the 190D and La-7 are clearly ahead of it out of all non-perked aircraft in level acceleration, to give you an idea of the power it has. However, it would be described as an average diver at best, leaning more towards the "poor" end of the spectrum, due to its handling characteristics, and low compression speed.


If you have better acceleration, you'll be better in a sustained turn fight than another aircraft with an equal wing loading, but worse acceleration. This is because you'll slow down less in the turns, and you'll drop to your minimum speed slower than the other aircraft.


Its also invaluable in an energy fight. Say a Typhoon is BnZing a 109K from a 2k alt advantage. Realistically, the Typhoon will only have a few passes before the 109K equalizes the energy states, and starts to take the advatnage. The K4 peaks at over 4500ft/min climb rate at low altitude, and it only takes slightly over 2 mintues to make 10,000ft, and effortlessly out accelerates the Typhy. The Tyhpoon also retains energy rather poorly, only compounding the problem.

Acceleration is almost always accompanied by a good climb rate, IIRC, so you can usually count on that to help you build energy along with your pure level acceleration.
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Offline Kovel

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Re: What does acceleration give you?
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2012, 02:34:12 AM »
Ok, Thanks for help  :)

 :salute
" I personally led the attack to A1" - Pipz

Offline Hazard69

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Re: What does acceleration give you?
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2012, 08:46:37 AM »
The biggest benefit of quick acceleration is to be able to develop separation. Even if it doesnt last that separation is preciosu time you've gained which can be used to make decisions, adjust the merge, run for friendlies etc. While individually they seem momentary benefits, they each have a potiential to change the outcome of a fight.

Ofcourse another place rapid acceleration is useful is with multiple contacts. You really need to try and build/conserve E after each evasive you pull. Higher acceleration will aid you in doing that.
<S> Hazardus

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