109 vs Spitfire

[Lusche]

That is a cool factoid, thanks!

factoid.... I like that

[Widewing]

the charts only tell you so much.   Next time you see me online, I'd love to witness the 109F's abilities first hand!  

You gents are on Euro time and far more likely to be online at the same hour. That said, I'd love to duel 109F vs Spit9. Would be a great deal of fun...

[STEELE]

I dont think the spit9 owns a g2 in any way shape or form, besides the obvious horizontal turning

[Karnak]

I dont think the spit9 owns a g2 in any way shape or form, besides the obvious horizontal turning

Visibility and firepower as well.  Not sure about roll rate.

[JOACH1M]

In a 109F model that spit that has me sweating the most is the spit9. The 9 has the power to climb and turn with a 109F and can keep in side the turn. The spit8 is to heavy and with the 16 being clipped winged it's fairly easy to get them to slow for them to handle.

G2 vs Spit8: is a 50/50 draw IMO. Very close planes.

G14 vs spit8: spit8 unless g14 and pull very quickly and land some good shots on the spit, otherwise it's toast.

K4 vs spit8/16: These are close battles the k4 has alot power power over these and should use a right-hand spiral climb to get the spits to slow and have the 109 chop throttle and slide in for a high angle shot. In a dogfight the spit will win majority, but if the k4 is behind someone good they can twist the k4 very fast for a shot.

[STEELE]

In a 109F model that spit that has me sweating the most is the spit9. The 9 has the power to climb and turn with a 109F and can keep in side the turn. The spit8 is to heavy and with the 16 being clipped winged it's fairly easy to get them to slow for them to handle.

G2 vs Spit8: is a 50/50 draw IMO. Very close planes.

G14 vs spit8: spit8 unless g14 and pull very quickly and land some good shots on the spit, otherwise it's toast.

K4 vs spit8/16: These are close battles the k4 has alot power power over these and should use a right-hand spiral climb to get the spits to slow and have the 109 chop throttle and slide in for a high angle shot. In a dogfight the spit will win majority, but if the k4 is behind someone good they can twist the k4 very fast for a shot.

Aha, there's my problem, I was using left handed spiral climbs against spits in a K4

[titanic3]

Visibility and firepower as well.  Not sure about roll rate.

It's not hard to keep sight on anyone in a 109. If you have your views set up right. Firepower is a moot point, half a second burst of even a single 20mm into a Spit tears it apart.

[Karnak]

It's not hard to keep sight on anyone in a 109. If you have your views set up right. Firepower is a moot point, half a second burst of even a single 20mm into a Spit tears it apart.

I wasn't aware that the only targets in AH were Spitfires.

You can keep anything in view of anything in AH, some are just easier than in others.  The Spitfire Mk IX is easier than the bf109G-2, even with optimal view settings on the Bf109.

I stand by my points.

[titanic3]

I wasn't aware that the only targets in AH were Spitfires.

You can keep anything in view of anything in AH, some are just easier than in others.  The Spitfire Mk IX is easier than the bf109G-2, even with optimal view settings on the Bf109.

I stand by my points.

I wasn't aware we were discussing something else in a 109 vs Spitfire thread.

[Butcher]

I wasn't aware we were discussing something else in a 109 vs Spitfire thread.

[Karnak]

I wasn't aware we were discussing something else in a 109 vs Spitfire thread.

Firepower still counts and more is better.  No matter how you try to lie the fact remains that the Spitfire Mk IX has more firepower and better visibility out of the cockpit.

[titanic3]

And one MG151/20 is still plenty to kill a Spitfire in a half second burst. No matter how you try to lie the fact. 

[Debrody]

Titan, dont plant false illusions.
In a 109, you have to hold your bullet stream on the Spitfire, one crossing snapshot with one 151/20 wont kill it, unless you get lucky and hit the pilot on the head. Ergo, you (or me, as talking from experience) have to create 2-3 good snapshots in most of the cases. Thats very difficult since the Spit turns, accelerates, rolls much better than a G6, and still quite a bit better than the F4. Against a more or less equal pilot, it was next to inpossible for me.

Of course, if you have energy on the Spit, even more, he ropes himself up right to your guns, one 20mm cannon is more than enough to kill an aircraft. But 2 of them are twice better 

[Karnak]

And one MG151/20 is still plenty to kill a Spitfire in a half second burst. No matter how you try to lie the fact. 

I am not claiming otherwise.  I am stating the fact that the Spitfire Mk IX has more firepower.  More than twice as much.  The Spitfire Mk IX does not need even that half second to kill the Bf109G-2.

[bozon]

I am not claiming otherwise.  I am stating the fact that the Spitfire Mk IX has more firepower.  More than twice as much.  The Spitfire Mk IX does not need even that half second to kill the Bf109G-2.

Since the spit guns are wing mounted I find that they do not give twice the insta-killing power as much as twice the chance to hit something critical with one gun. In a knife fight, as opposed to BnZ, the bandit is often closer than the convergence range. Hence, I tend to hit different parts of the plane with each gun, or hit with one and completely miss with the other. It still means that two guns are better than one, but are not the same as one gun with twice the power.

For a poor shot like myself whose aiming method is to fill the front view with the enemy plane, close my eyes and pull the trigger, the scatter-gun effect of wing mounted guns can offer an additional advantage. The single Hispano still hits harder than a single MG151/20, or so it seems.