Rudder spiking affecting low speed maneuevering

[oboe]

Anybody else have this problem?   I've noticed it two times now - on different rudder pedal sets.  First on my venerable old Thrustmaster Elite pedals and now on their replacement the Saitek Pro Flight pedals.

What happens is my plane seems to lose all flying ability and pancakes into the ground when maneuevering hard in a turn fight on the deck.   I had a difficult time nailing down what was wrong but I could tell the plane was behaving differently than before.   When I went to calibrate in AH I could see the spiking values when I tried to hold a steady turn angle with the pedals.  It doesn't trigger the "Don't move your controls so fast" message but it does seem to rob me of low speed acceleration.   

Does it make sense that the program is seeing the rudder fishtailing (faster than the naked eye can perceive) and is calculating and applying drag penalties for the rudder's back and forth motion?  That seems like a reasonable explanation to me, but wonder if anybody else has eve noticed it.

On the first go around with this problem I ended up doing the Hall sensor mod to my TM pedals.  That last for several years, then the Hall sensor seemed to fail.   It no longer produced a smooth transition of values as the shaft was rotated but just flip flopped between two states.   I ended up ordering the Saiteks instead of following up on a repair but today I went back to Cubby's site to see if any more Halls are available. 

Failing that I will become a CH convert I guess.

[FLS]

The rudder doesn't move as fast as the controller, even if you want it to. Look at the raw and scaled rudder indicators on the controller setup/advanced tab on the clipboard. You can see if the spiking moves the scaled indicator. If it does, just add damping until it stops.

You can probably clear up the spiking by cleaning the potentiometer.

[oboe]

Thanks FLS, good idea.  I went in game to try it and even with full damping (slider all the way to top), I still see spiking in the scaled rudder indicator.  I tried to film this but the film just shows the tower view; it will not show calibration screen.

[Krusty]

You don't want full damping... That will greatly slow your response time. Just bring up the advanced tab for the rudder axis and find a suitable setting. Keep depressing the rudder pedals as you tweak the settings. See what that means in terms of scaled inputs and the raw inputs.

[oboe]

Damping doesn't help - you are right it it just seems to slow the response time to the input.   I have found I can watch the rudder deflect back and forth while this spiking occurs.

Just got a brand new set of CH pedals, and they spike in the same way.  Hold about 45 degree input in either direction, and the raw and scaled displays twitch and you can watch the plane's rudder wander back and forth in external view.

Could this be a power supply issue?   I recall I also went through 2 Logitech G940 systems (one was sent as a replacement) and they both had bad spiking on the rudder axis.   I've also tried using a powered USB hub, but I still see the spiking.

Or could it be a problem with the mobo USB circuits?   I dont know why it would only show on the rudder though and not on the joystick X Y axes.

Next step is to install AH on my laptop and check for spiking there.  I know when I was troubleshooting the G940s rudder pedals, I install the G940 on a laptop and saw no spiking at all.  But I'd like to see its behavior in AH on the laptop also.

Appreciate any thoughts or other testing I could perform.


EDIT:  Just tested both the Saitek and the CH pedals on my laptop with AH installed, with and without use of a powered USB hub.  The CHs were generally stable, and the Saiteks did spike a little but were noticeably more stable with the use of a the powered USB hub.

So my question remains - can a faulty or poorly performing power supply affect spiking of USB controllers?   Is the improved stability with the use of the hub indicative of a dirty power problem?   

Thanks help!

[Bino]

Oboe, you might try checking the power draw of the USB devices via the Windows Device Manager window...?

[oboe]

Oboe, you might try checking the power draw of the USB devices via the Windows Device Manager window...?

That sounds like a good idea - I have Win 7 pro 64bit.   Where so I find power draw display?   I'm in Device Manager, and I can see the Saitek pedals listed twice under Human Interface Devices - once with a (HID) suffix and once with (USB).   But when I go into Properties on either of those I don't see anything about power draw.

btw, I let Windows install the USB drivers for both the CH peds and the Saiteks.

[Bizman]

So my question remains - can a faulty or poorly performing power supply affect spiking of USB controllers?   Is the improved stability with the use of the hub indicative of a dirty power problem?   

Thanks help!

The answer to both is "highly possible". USB delivers both data and 5V current, so if the 5V line of your PSU isn't doing its job the USB devices relying on it suffer. It is also possible that the capacitors handling your USB ports are failing, the result being similar.

Test your rig with another known good PSU. Also look for swollen caps on your motherboard.

[Bino]

That sounds like a good idea - I have Win 7 pro 64bit.   Where so I find power draw display?   I'm in Device Manager, and I can see the Saitek pedals listed twice under Human Interface Devices - once with a (HID) suffix and once with (USB).   But when I go into Properties on either of those I don't see anything about power draw.

btw, I let Windows install the USB drivers for both the CH peds and the Saiteks.

Within the Device Manager window, expand the "Universal Serial Bus controllers" folder...



...then, one by one, select the devices you see in there, right-click to pull up the selection menu, left-click on "Properties", and check if there is a "Power" tab...

[Wagger]

Oboe I'm beginning to wonder if it is not something about your system.  I remember you having the same problem with the Logitech G940.  I have used mine on two different systems and have not come across that problem yet.

[oboe]

I'm out of town for a week but will try new psu when I get back.  
Will also note the current draw.

Thx help!

[Copprhed]

Are you sure that you are using a powered usb port? I found that buying an inexpensive usb hub solved my joystick issues.