AVA cans and can'ts

[jimson]

Thought I would point out the capabilities we have and don't have so that folks with ideas can realistically tailor them to our capabilities.

What we cannot do

Basically we have no automatic capabilities. We can't have a win the war reset and map change because the server system is based on 3 country all planes/vehicles enabled default. We can't attach a custom early war brit vs germany planeset to a terrain in reserve and have that rotated to.We can only change the planes etc for the terrain we have loaded at the time. We also can't load a list of terrains to rotate through automatically, if the map rotation feature works at all for us, it could rotate randomly to any map on the server including TA map or a racing map and it wouldn't have the right planes enabled.

We can't change the settings for individual bases including making some uncapturable and some not. It's all bases or no bases for settings, hardness, downtimes etc.

We can't enable certain numbers like 15 262's and when they are gone they are gone. They are either manually enabled or not.

We cannot use any type of event log or scoring program, other than the monthly tour scores available to everyone but we can't determine top fighter pilots of jetweek for example and we can't determine top attack or bombing scores of jetweek etc.

We cannot use the perk system. We can't set our own perk points for different aircraft so it's useless to us. If we are running battle of britain there is no place in that setup for perked ME-262's ect.

What we can do

We can change hardness and down times for almost everything, but if we change fighter hanger hardness or DT it will be for all fighter hangers, not just for one base or one country

We can disable certain weapon load outs for each AC or vehicle model.

We can do things manually depending on availability of manpower. IE: We can enable ME 262's for one hour and then turn them off.

We can visually tally objectives, say look and see how many fuel factories knights have destroyed etc.

We can enable different aircraft at different individual bases for either country IE: If bases 1 and 2 are bishop we can have P-40's available at base 1 and P-51's available at base 2. If Knights capture them we can have 109's available for knights at base 1 and FW-190's available for them at base 2.

We can get approximate kill numbers for a certain time period. IE: we can manually determine how many 109Fs were killed between this time and that time. Using spreadsheets we can determine how many approximate kills Knights had vs how many Bish had.

We can manually change maps and setups whenever we want and have someone available to do it.

So now you know you can determine what's feasible and what isn't.

Any questions?

[icepac]

There might be a workaround on some issues.

My question is "why is the axis vs allies arena have extra limitations as compared to the main arenas?"

Is it because HTC does not fully trust the moderators?

[Nathan60]

There might be a workaround on some issues.

My question is "why is the axis vs allies arena have extra limitations as compared to the main arenas?"

Is it because HTC does not fully trust the moderators?

Stinky bait look out! LOL

[jimson]

There might be a workaround on some issues.

My question is "why is the axis vs allies arena have extra limitations as compared to the main arenas?"

Is it because HTC does not fully trust the moderators?

What limitations are those? They can choose the maps that go on that server and they do because they need MA maps to meet certain criteria. but I think it's random rotate for them as well. They don't have our same issues because their plane sets are everything enabled for 3 countries, doesn't matter if Bish and Knights rotate positions to them, they don't use an English channel map, where one side with certain planes is supposed to be in one particular area.

We can do just about everything they can, it's just not set up to work for a custom two country limited plane set. I was once told it would take a major rewrite of the program to give us more AvA specific options.

There are other things that can be built into a terrain, but you have to have access to the source files in order to change things and we only have access to 4 or 5 that staff members created themselves. As far as building the default plane sets into the terrain, that feature hasn't ever worked as far as I know, I know it hasn't worked for a long time for sure.

We have the same capabilities as the SEA CM's have, minus event logging. They don't need any MA style automatic tools because they have a very large team of admins and their arena can be constantly monitored during the times it is open for play.

We are kind of in no mans land. Nothing in the programming is setup for a largely unsupervised 24/7 custom setup arena.

[captain1ma]

There might be a workaround on some issues.

My question is "why is the axis vs allies arena have extra limitations as compared to the main arenas?"

Is it because HTC does not fully trust the moderators?

All the arena's have the same limitation. the only difference is that the sea's and the AVA are not automatic map changing arena's so that they can be customized. what exactly are you looking for?

[icepac]

A rolling planeset so we can have axis vs allies with planes of the same month introduction as the real war as found in Warbirds and IL2 arenas.

I'm not much concerned by japanese vs usa vs britain vs germany because I've found it doesn't really matter in the other places I have flown with a rolling planeset.

The whole goal is not to have everybody running around in tempests and La7s with the early war rides being ignored.

If Axis vs Allies had the same functionality as the main arenas, then it could be done.

Since you say it doesn't, then I am done discussing and HTC can enjoy "SEA 4" that largely sits empty.

[captain1ma]

have you ever been in the AVA?  have you ever seen one of the setups?

our setups are evenly matched based on particular time periods. you would know that, if you had been in there. the planeset changes with each setup. if its a 1943 based setup, then you get planes that were available in 1943. we have some "what if" setups that are a little different. but they are few and far in-between.

i think you need to understand the AVA better before you start making blanket statements about the arena. i also think you should refrain from comparing aces high to games that have totally different models.

come in and spend some time in the ava. 7-8pm to about 11pm-12am EST is when its most populated. feel free to swing in and get a feel for it.

[tmetal]

Icepac-

It is my understanding that the entire game doesn't support an automatic rolling planeset feature (even the MAs); the AvA is the only arena that does offer something close to a rolling planeset on certain setups.  Each setup normally only has a small number of planes enabled (3-6 for each side) and if it is an early or mid war set up you wont see the late war monster rides in the air.  It seems that you are making assumtions of the AvA based on secondhand and biased information and that is keeping you from really giving the AvA a honest chance to show you what it offers.  If you ever get to the point where you want to see if what you believe about the AvA is true or not, send me a PM and I will do my best to make time to wing up with you.

[ghostdancer]

Correct there is no code (automation) for any arena to support a rolling plane set (no setting that says after X hours enable Y planes and disable Z planes). The MA, SEA, and AvA do not have this option or functionality. The -only- way to do a rolling plane set is for an admin of arena to go in manually enable and disable planes.

The AvA staff does actually accomplish to a large extent since their setups do match time appropriate planes against each other. They just don't go okay all 1943 planes are available. They go the 1943 planes of this theater of operation are available and then after a short period of time switch to another theater and time period. So you do get appropriate time period so you don't have late war monsters versus early war planes.

[jimson]

A rolling planeset so we can have axis vs allies with planes of the same month introduction as the real war as found in Warbirds and IL2 arenas.

I'm not much concerned by japanese vs usa vs britain vs germany because I've found it doesn't really matter in the other places I have flown with a rolling planeset.

The whole goal is not to have everybody running around in tempests and La7s with the early war rides being ignored.

If Axis vs Allies had the same functionality as the main arenas, then it could be done.

Since you say it doesn't, then I am done discussing and HTC can enjoy "SEA 4" that largely sits empty.

There is a server side and a client side. What HTC can do on the server side, I don't know but we only have access to the client side.

I'm going to take a stab at what I guess you would like to see.

A setup that begins with early war planes, as either time progresses or as certain objectives are met, progressively more advanced planes are added.

We do not have any mechanism, a trigger so to speak that will automatically enable those planes at the correct time. We would have to do it manually just by deciding "OK time to add the newer planes."

There is the question of whether to keep it all on the same map or switch out to new maps like we do now.

What AvA does now is portray a particular battle or time period and enable the appropriately planes balancing accuracy and playability as best we can on a weekly basis.

The closest we can get to an automatic system is to have progressively newer planes unlocked as a side advances and captures bases. The problem with that is that if only one side captures bases they will be the only ones getting newer planes and we can't prevent people from coming in when the arena is empty and rolling bases against no opposition.

You call us the SEA 4 but here are the differences. We are always open, they are only open for events. They are structured, and their setups have some scripting, we do not. Their events are limited numbers of lives, ours are not.

Many of theirs require prior registration, ours do not. You have to be on time for theirs, ours you can come and go as you please.

We are not supposed to run events at all but since our community is a much smaller section of the AH player base it's not too likely that they will all be online at the same time, so we do try to designate certain times for people to gather, but if we do run a special battle we try to make it so unlike anything that is in the SEA that we are not really competing with them.

When we say we've tried that before, it doesn't mean we won't do it again, we are currently kicking ideas around about war timeline setups, but if you are looking for that one silver bullet that will turn everything around and lead to a largely populated arena 24/7, all I can say is dozens and dozens of Admins have been through here trying different things to find it and never have.

What we have found is a small community that enjoys playing here and we do get new people who come in and have fun and again I will say nights after 9pm est especially Tuesdays.

Who knows what future things HTC will add to the game. Perhaps some of them will be well suited to our arena and help us grow.

[icepac]

First I hear we had rolling plane set and nobody liked it.

Now I hear it is impossible to implement.

How did anybody experience it to form an opinion?

[jimson]

Aces High has never had an automatic rolling planeset that I know of. In AvA we have run certain setups with rolling planesets for that period of time. All done manually. Here is an example.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,298562.0.html

As far as running a larger scale setup encompassing all theaters and all Axis and Allied equipment, enabled progressively covering 1939 to 1945, we haven't tackled that yet, mostly because it all has to be done manually.

If we had a map like the one below, we could possibly leave it up for a month or so, start with the world at war as it was in 1940 for example and advance the territory and equipment every week representing a year or something.

We don't yet have such a map and everything would have to be done manually.



Did I mention that everything would have to be done manually?

[ghostdancer]

Hey Jimson? Would everything have to be done manually? 

[captain1ma]

First I hear we had rolling plane set and nobody liked it.

Now I hear it is impossible to implement.

How did anybody experience it to form an opinion?

we planning on a PTO with a rolling planeset for the AVA in the near future. when we have it ready to go, i will personally invite you to try it out. make sure you're available for the entire week to see how it works out. it will be 6 maps with progressive planes. this will give you an opportunity to experience it personally and report back to the rest of the community. each map will be installed daily. did i mention everything has to be done manually?

we don't mind doing it and it should be fun. if you want to find out how much work setting up an arena is and how hard it is. go into the custom arena's. setup bob09 or any other map of your choice and put different planes at every base. make sure you start with early war planes. then after your done, go back and change all your planes to midwar planes. then add the latewar planes after that. this will give you a good idea of the work that is entailed in running a arena such as the AVA, or the FSO or the Snapshots, or any other arena that is manual. the reason things cant be automated is because they are fully customizable. the MA's are not. they are what they are. could htc make them automatic? sure they could! but then they don't need guys like jimson and usranger and bino and shifty, and all the rest of the admin staff in the game. theres also no creativity when you do that either. just set the maps to run automatic, leave auto settings on and walk away.

the AVA is an arena that we decided, both as a collective with the admins and with a poll of 50 regular AVA players, that we wanted "no enemy icons". this was not a decision based on just the admins, but 50 players were included in that decision. we didn't do it on a whim, we did it because the want from the players was there. yes we pushed it a bit, but it was still a collective decision and had it gone the other way, we would've turned on enemy icons also. i know this is contrary to what the krusty's of the world have to say, but they were not included in the survey, because they never participate in the arena anyway.

we do the best we can, we try to make it as fun as we can, we listen to what people have to say. but we only take people that are in the arena day in and day out seriously. the rest are people that like to snipe, not so much. if you want us to work with you, ask us. if you have requests or idea's, ask them. work with us, and we'll work with you. dont beat us up on what you think you know. if you dont know how to setup a custom arena, then you have no idea how much work is involved in what we do.

if you want your rolling planeset, suggest a setup, with maps and with the list of planes. we'll help you put it together and see if we can make it happen. remember, everything is MANUAL, so the more complex it is, the more work it is. give that a try and suggest a setup and we'll see about putting it together. do you want one map and every day add more advanced planes? or do you want 6 different maps with 6 different planesets? help us understand what you're looking for.