What to do about the P-51D scourge?

[SilverZ06]

I would not support perking the P-51D.  It has way to much star power draw to perk and I think it, along with the Spitfire, makes an excellent baseline for top free plane.

A perked ordnance system to limit the 1000lb bombs on it or tweaking its ENY are as far as I'd go.

how is perking the ords going to effect the plane vs plane kills chart you posted? What would lowering the eny on it do? It is already at the lowest rating of 5. no body is going to care if it is a 3. our eny system has rarely kicked in since they did away with two late war arenas.

[lyric1]

If you take away the 1000 Lb. bomb option and the ability to mount both bombs and rockets at the same, that should reduce the total pony usage.

Why?

[Fish42]

ok so you perk the 51d. now everyone flies the unperked spit 16 instead.. 6 months down the road you are screaming to perk the spit 16.. and the cycle continues. Lunatic hit the nail on the head but you refuse to listen. STOP worrying what others fly. Fly what you want and let others do the same. its their $15, let them play their way

Except the spit 16 would not replace the pony.

Atm in AH, the pony is mostly seen in 1 roll, bomb-truck. Spits and LA7s won't take over the bomb-truck roll as they carry much smaller bombs/no rockets aswell as lower ammo loads. The only unperked planes that can match the Pony in ords loadout would be the Jug/P-38/Mossie/190-F8 and the F4U-D.

These 5 are slower then the pony even with WEP on the deck. The Jug can BnZ well but once things get slow or a con shows-up with a little alt the Jug is unable to run same with the 38 & mossie. Now there are players that can stall/turn fight these planes and pull some great moves in them, but most average hordes dont have that skill level. The F4U is the real threat of this group as it is able to match the ord load and range of the pony but is also able to use that huge rudder and flaps when things get low and slow.

[SilverZ06]

Except the spit 16 would not replace the pony.

Atm in AH, the pony is mostly seen in 1 roll, bomb-truck.

I think you may have your facts wrong... check the chart posted in the first post.

[Karnak]

how is perking the ords going to effect the plane vs plane kills chart you posted? What would lowering the eny on it do? It is already at the lowest rating of 5. no body is going to care if it is a 3. our eny system has rarely kicked in since they did away with two late war arenas.

Do you not think P-51Ds are used as fighters after dropping their bombs and firing their rockets?  Do you not think that some of those P-51Ds shot down by other P-51Ds or by La-7s were being used as bomb trucks?

Limit the 1000lbers and it becomes a less attractive bomb truck causing people to look to things like the P-47s, P-38s and F4Us which can act as a bomb truck, but aren't as good at running.

As to ENY changes, well, lowering the ENY from 5 to 2 or 3 would make the P-51D suffer impacts from ENY limitations earlier.  Currently only the B-29 has an ENY of 2 though.

[Hap]

Can anything be done to encourage more diversity?  Should anything be done?

From my perch in the cheap seats: Yes & no.

I'm happy with things as they are.

[Fish42]

I think you may have your facts wrong... check the chart posted in the first post.

The stats only tell you that ponys where shooting things down. Its not the ponys capping their fields or flying escort who are the problems, its the sheer singleminded hordes that up almost nothing but heavy ponys. Perking the 1000s would slow them down alot.

[SmokinLoon]

A review of the perk scale would be good, me thinks.  The P51D and the Spitfire 16 could both use a jump, imo.

I think the scale needs to be more dynamic, currently most of the scale is tiered out in levels of 5, I say use a 2 through 60 scale.  Things like the B29, P51D, Spitfire 16, Me262, Tempest, and a few obvious others should be at 5 or higher, and things like the C47 and Storch should be at 60.  The SBD, D3A, and B5N should be in the 50-55 range.  

In terms of GV's, I really think HTC needs to re-evaluate their current ENY values.  The Panzer IV F has a score of 40 and the Panzer IV H has a 25???  If HTC was using only the short barreled version to score that then maybe, but as it is the F is just slightly behind the H in terms of AP ability.  The lack of a top mounted MG may give another 2-3 points, but not 15.  

[Karnak]

I just don't think the much more limited, slower and less used Spitfire Mk XVI and La-7 should share the P-51D's ENY 5 if no other controls are added.  The usage gulf between them is just too great now.

[guncrasher]

The P-51D's usage seems to be hold at about the Spitfire Mk XVI's and La-7's combined usage, yet all are equally ranked at ENY 5.  In Lusche's post of the time five types killed by a particular plane, the P-51D was listed six times:
Can anything be done to encourage more diversity?  Should anything be done?

I would suggest dropping the P-51D to 2 ENY or raising the ENY of every other unperked fighter by 5 and leaving the P-51D at 5 ENY by itself, but both of those have other significant, and undesirable, impacts.  The first would greatly increase the number of perk points people were earning, the perk points awarded for shooting down a P-51D in a Hurricane Mk I would jump from 8 to 20, which would likely require perk costs for perked units to be raised.  The second would alter the balance that ENY restrictions apply and somewhat increase the number of Fighter Perks being by low ENY fighters like La-7s and Spitfire Mk XVI's while reducing overall perks earned by high ENY fighters like the Bf109E-4 and A6M2.  ENY wouldn't restrict access to things like the La-7 and Spitfire Mk XVI nearly as often.

give it a eny of 0, make it so whatever points you get dont count towards score and i will still fly it.  It is funny how some people want to control what others play.

when I started playing I would only fly the zeke and I got pretty good at it then it was the beatching and moning about only flying that.  then I switched to the spit9 then the spit8  I got some pretty cool kills in it.  I also flew the Il2 and oh the moaning and beatching from the gv's and the couple of 262's that I nailed.  then I flew the c205 it was too easy of a plane to fly.  so now I fly the ponyd give it a lower eny or no points  I dont play for score so it doesnt matter.

but one thing to ponder around here what about the p47's and their unlimited ammo?   dont forget the ponyb it turns almost like a spitfire but without cannons.  and dont tell me it's that hard to fly the ki84 forget the c205  that thing is easy as hell and it is a perk farmer.  most of the people that fly  bg109 only know one trick and that is trying to rope.  then the whining begins because they run out of e and get killed.

I have flown almost all airplanes and most are pretty decent to fly and get kills in.  but I will refuse to fly the 190s.  but if you want people to really show skill then fly the p38 now that is a man's plane.  some day I'll learn to fly it, rest of the plane set is just so some people can beatch about how the other is a dweeb.


semp

[bustr]

When the P51B entered the ETO it flew on 130 octane like it is modeled in the MA. The P51D entered service in the ETO using 150 octane. Why not have the P51D changed to 72" manfold and 150 octane with a perk of 20 - 30? The P51D in the ETO was not a 130 octane bird when it met the Dora or K4 like our P51D is in the MA. One could argue any allied fighter introduced June 44 on should be running 150 and perked.

A similare argument to change the spit14 to 21lbs boost and increase it's perk to match the Tempest along with the Tempest changed to 11lbs boost. British fighters in the 2nd Tactical over the continent at the same time as the P51D were running on 150.

And we know WEP is used as the standard "Combat Warp 12 Speed" in this game along with relyance on it to enable many exotic aerobatic combat manuvers that just wouldn't work very well without that little bit of torquy boost at the right choreographed moment. Not "War Emergency Power", especially since it repowers itself like a Mario Brothers power up token.

Make it the P51D the real humdinger it was and perk it appropriatly. If players still want to be runstangs let them do it in the P51B. It's just as competitive in the MA with all the non-perk rides minus 2-.50cal but, you have to tote around those bazooka tubes after you de-ack. So remember to bring escorts to fight and vulch for you to save you from the defending Brewsters.

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Deliveries of Grade 100/150 aviation fuel to Eighth Air Force fighter airfields commenced in June 1944. This coincidentally occured about the same time as the introduction of the P-51D into service. Even though the USAAF had cleared the P-51 for 75" Hg., the Eighth Air Force chose 72" Hg as the P-51's War Emergency Rating.

[kvuo75]

i'm guessing its just the new fad.. for awhile it was all noe 110's. now its heavy ponies.


i just checked my stats from field gun last tour.. as far as kills of fighters #1 was p51d and #2 was f4ud (cv version of hordelet bomb truck)


if you dont think tweaking ord availability would change its usage you're nuts.

[lunatic1]

If you take away the 1000 Lb. bomb option and the ability to mount both bombs and rockets at the same, that should reduce the total pony usage.

p51-d's crried 1000 pound bombs and rockets at same time in wwii.

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

Kill em.  Kill em all, then shoot some more.  Then let HTC sort it out.

Nuff said, case closed. 

[lunatic1]

That include the jugs?

if you perk the p51d--u might as well perk the p47d-40-it carries more bombs and rockets---where will it end????????????????????