Author Topic: Crash this weekend at my airport.  (Read 5135 times)

Offline CAP1

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22287
      • The Axis Vs Allies Arena
Re: Crash this weekend at my airport.
« Reply #90 on: November 15, 2012, 06:44:18 PM »
Ah yeah, you've mentioned the upgraded powerplant the previous owners installed a couple times, good deal (how fast can it climb with full flaps?).  


Again, I have no 172 experience, but how much runway does it need to stop at 80knts?  The reason I even brought this up is coincidently just as you mentioned, I see 172s at least once a day with full flaps ~60knts (maybe less sometimes) and then having to really gun it to cushion it on the flare.  Maybe they're practicing techniques, but I'm not counting those more obviously practicing power-offs and such.

Buster jogged my memory a bit, someone before once told me a couple years ago full flaps on a 172 isn't really much defelction (due to I recall surface area and the 40deg limit) at full.  Funny coincidence again, that same person hasn't flown a 172 in a while as he also enjoys his BC a metric-ton more these days too (particulary the days that it doesn't need any fixing or work).

 it's been about 4 years since i've been in the air.......

downwind about 80 to 100kts. no need to rush things. do midfield check, then when abreast of my aim point, pull engine to 1500rpm, as necessary to slow down a bit, 10 degrees flaps, re-trim for 500/ft descent, around 70. when the aim point's at about my 5 oclock, turn base. if everything looks right, 20 degrees flaps, re-trim to maintain descent. picture still looks good, clear long final(i can't tell you how many times i've had people come in flying a 1.5 mile final), then turn onto final. at this point i generally like to be doing about 65kts. re-trim as necessary to keep the picture looking good, and maintain my 500ft descent. short final, slow to 60kts, 30 degrees flaps. as my aim point starts to vanish under the nose, pull throttle to idle, hold nose off for the flare, touch down on the numbers, and take the first turn off.
 that of course is on calm wind days. crosswinds change things some, and headwinds change them too. i landed ONCE with a 5kt tailwind. it was me being stupid, and although i'd listened to AWOS, saw the windsock favoring the opposite runway, rather than say something, i got stupid, and entered the pattern #3 in line. none of us had problems. i floated a bit longer than i'm accustomed to, and that was why. as i was taxing back to the runway, someone else mentioned the winds, and we all had to taxi to the other end of the runway.

 the power difference between the "N" models with 160hp, and the "P" model we had with the 180hp engine was actually surprising. it threw off my sight pictures the first time i flew it. i was airborne a couple hundred feet quicker, hit 500ft way earlier than i was used to, and was much more sensitive to throttle adjustments when landing or cruising.

 i had landed the "N" models with 40 degrees of flaps, but i never truly needed them. 30 was always enough. the CFI i spent a lot of time flying with was constantly throwing "emergencies" at me, so believe it or not, on a landing without electrics, landing with no flaps was no big deal. i flew final just as if i had flaps, just with less throttle, and floated for a lot longer than i wanted to.....but still well before the decision point of a go-around(that was the windsock at this particular airport...on the ground, good to go...still in the air, was gonna feed in the throttle, and head over to pne where they've got really long runways.)

almost forgot........40 degrees of flaps is a lot. and those suckers are pretty big too.
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline colmbo

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2246
      • Photos
Re: Crash this weekend at my airport.
« Reply #91 on: November 15, 2012, 07:08:06 PM »
Ah yeah, you've mentioned the upgraded powerplant the previous owners installed a couple times, good deal (how fast can it climb with full flaps?).  


Again, I have no 172 experience, but how much runway does it need to stop at 80knts?  The reason I even brought this up is coincidently just as you mentioned, I see 172s at least once a day with full flaps ~60knts (maybe less sometimes) and then having to really gun it to cushion it on the flare.  Maybe they're practicing techniques, but I'm not counting those more obviously practicing power-offs and such.

I'd never land a 172 at 80 knots...way too fast.  I don't have a POH handy, IIRC short-field approach speed is down around 60 knots.  As for how much runway, will depend on your technique.  In my 182 (heavier, more power) I've landed and taken off in under 300' at mid weights for the airplane.   That was a measured distance at a short-field clinic I attended. (My shortest landing was 265', my longest takeoff was 295') I was flying short-final at about 60 MPH IAS, using power to fine-tune the glide slope as needed.  No reason a 172 couldn't be flown at those same speeds, even a bit less.

Here's the kind of places I've landed and the series will show a bit what my approaches looked like:

Strip is about 600' long but  only about 400' really usable.  Right where that little kink to the right is there is a big bump, you need to be very slow when you cross it - at least in a tricycle gear airplane.  First pic just turned final, full flaps, speed 60ish.



Nest pic about 1/2 way down final, keeping airspeed nailed, using power to adjust glideslope.



Third pic short final, everything has to be right on here or go around and do it again.  Notice the strip is only as wide as the main gear on a Cessna, you land on the centerline or you break things.



Last pic on the ground.



Photos taken by my wife, the worlds bravest airplane passenger.



Columbo

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" and the warrior whispers back "I AM THE STORM"

Offline Golfer

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6314
Re: Crash this weekend at my airport.
« Reply #92 on: November 15, 2012, 07:11:27 PM »
Where's the ILS antenna?

Offline Bodhi

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8698
Re: Crash this weekend at my airport.
« Reply #93 on: November 16, 2012, 05:49:51 PM »
I'd never land a 172 at 80 knots...way too fast.  I don't have a POH handy, IIRC short-field approach speed is down around 60 knots.  As for how much runway, will depend on your technique.  In my 182 (heavier, more power) I've landed and taken off in under 300' at mid weights for the airplane.   That was a measured distance at a short-field clinic I attended. (My shortest landing was 265', my longest takeoff was 295') I was flying short-final at about 60 MPH IAS, using power to fine-tune the glide slope as needed.  No reason a 172 couldn't be flown at those same speeds, even a bit less.

Here's the kind of places I've landed and the series will show a bit what my approaches looked like:

Strip is about 600' long but  only about 400' really usable.  Right where that little kink to the right is there is a big bump, you need to be very slow when you cross it - at least in a tricycle gear airplane.  First pic just turned final, full flaps, speed 60ish.

(Image removed from quote.)

Nest pic about 1/2 way down final, keeping airspeed nailed, using power to adjust glideslope.

(Image removed from quote.)

Third pic short final, everything has to be right on here or go around and do it again.  Notice the strip is only as wide as the main gear on a Cessna, you land on the centerline or you break things.

(Image removed from quote.)

Last pic on the ground.

(Image removed from quote.)

Photos taken by my wife, the worlds bravest airplane passenger.





Envious of your locale man.  Just beautiful!
I regret doing business with TD Computer Systems.

Offline colmbo

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2246
      • Photos
Re: Crash this weekend at my airport.
« Reply #94 on: November 16, 2012, 06:25:19 PM »
Where's the ILS antenna?

Not equipped, this is an LGA procedure.


Look at Glacier on Approach.
Columbo

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" and the warrior whispers back "I AM THE STORM"

Offline colmbo

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2246
      • Photos
Re: Crash this weekend at my airport.
« Reply #95 on: November 16, 2012, 06:25:58 PM »
Envious of your locale man.  Just beautiful!

Yeah.  Came up here as a paratrooper in '73....still here.
Columbo

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" and the warrior whispers back "I AM THE STORM"

Offline Sg11

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 131
Re: Crash this weekend at my airport.
« Reply #96 on: November 22, 2012, 06:53:04 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xU2HxqXUtk

What the film does not say is also there is a big pilot screw up. That runway has a 500 foot displaced thresh hold. The pilot was landing well short of the end of the runway.

The road is the reason for the displacement.

http://maps.google.com/maps?z=14&q=33.0498447+-97.2322375&ll=33.0498447+-97.2322375&iwloc=near


HiTech


Wow, talk about bad luck.