Author Topic: new Tank destoryers......  (Read 2233 times)

Offline Eric19

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 591
new Tank destoryers......
« on: November 19, 2012, 04:50:18 PM »
The M36 Slugger which carried the 90mm M3 gun or the 76 m1a2 it served from 1943 to 1945 with about 2000 built between  43' and 45' it would almost as powerful as the tiger2 with the 90mm but with less armor

The M10 Wolverine which carried the 76mm m7 gun or the 76mm M1A1 same as the one on our M4A3W(76)
The m10 served from 1943 to 1945

 :salute Eric19
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 04:55:42 PM by Eric19 »
Proud member of the 91ST BG (H) The Ragged Irregulars

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: new Tank destoryers......
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2012, 06:28:18 PM »
I'd rather have the M-26 Pershing, give the US a tank that can finally face the heavy tanks in this game.

ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline Eric19

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 591
Re: new Tank destoryers......
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2012, 06:57:46 PM »
I'd rather have the M-26 Pershing, give the US a tank that can finally face the heavy tanks in this game.

ack-ack
I totally forgot about the Pershing lol lets throw that one in to the mix as well lol
Proud member of the 91ST BG (H) The Ragged Irregulars

Offline Tank-Ace

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5298
Re: new Tank destoryers......
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2012, 08:46:31 PM »
Didn't the slugger actually have slightly thicker frontal armor than the Pershing? Lighter, faster, and better armored from the front. Also, being a TD, it would have had priority on any APCR rounds the are shipped to Europe, and so might have a chance of getting them in the game.


It sounds like the M36 might actually be a bit better for our purposes than the Pershing would be.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline WWhiskey

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3122
Re: new Tank destoryers......
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2012, 08:49:45 PM »
I'd rather have the M-26 Pershing, give the US a tank that can finally face the heavy tanks in this game.

ack-ack
+1 :salute
Flying since tour 71.

Offline captain1ma

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14765
      • JG54 website
Re: new Tank destoryers......
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2012, 11:42:27 PM »
i always use the panther as a sub for the Pershing. its close, but not quite the same. it definitely evens thing with the tiger.

Offline tunnelrat

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1739
Re: new Tank destoryers......
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2012, 01:56:47 AM »
I'd rather have the M-26 Pershing, give the US a tank that can finally face the heavy tanks in this game.

ack-ack

This is a win for players, Aces High, and the bottom line...  +1
In-Game: 80hd
The Spartans do not enquire how many the enemy are but where they are.

Offline SmokinLoon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6168
Re: new Tank destoryers......
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2012, 12:44:55 PM »
No no no and no to the Pershing or M36.  The Pershing would be on par with the Panther (yeah, look it up) in terms of firepower and armor, but not speed. Not sure about reload or turret traverse.

if HTC wants to add something we currently do not have, the StG III (or IV) would be good, or better yet the Su-100.  The whole turret-less thing is a major hang up though, neither has the ability to traverse in place, both would have to "worm" their way around if they want to change.  

I still think HTC would do well to add multiple variants of the Panzer III, or a early or mid-war British tank with multiple variants (2 pdr and 6 pdr main guns).  The Crusader and Valentine come to mind.  Though, it has been shown that the players want the "flash-bang" of having the best there is in WWII and most anything from EW simply isnt flashy enough.  

EDIT: You guys crying about the US not having a tank that can go toe to toe with the Germans are missing a few marbles. You're asking for something that never really happened. The Pershing was at best equal to the Panther.  Double check the US 76mm already in game, check the ranges in which it is effective and use it to your advantage.  There is a reason the M18 is a major pain in the backside to Tiger tanks (any tank), run like you stole something and get to a flank.  Sometimes it isn't about standing and fighting.

« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 12:55:51 PM by SmokinLoon »
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: new Tank destoryers......
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2012, 02:10:49 PM »

EDIT: You guys crying about the US not having a tank that can go toe to toe with the Germans are missing a few marbles. You're asking for something that never really happened. The Pershing was at best equal to the Panther. 


What really never happened?  Pershings going against heavy German tanks in the last months of the war? 

ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline Butcher

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5323
Re: new Tank destoryers......
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2012, 04:07:14 PM »
What really never happened?  Pershings going against heavy German tanks in the last months of the war? 

ack-ack

Pershing's faced german tanks, what many wanted were the Super Pershings which "believed" to go toe-to-toe with the King Tiger, which isn't true.

Pershing is just a heavier version of the Panther, less agility at 25mph, armor wise wasn't any better then a panther or less. The Gun can knock out a Tiger tank under 1,000 yards easy with HVAP, otherwise its AP rounds wouldn't dent a Tiger/Panther.
JG 52

Offline MK-84

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2272
Re: new Tank destoryers......
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2012, 05:36:57 PM »
What really never happened?  Pershings going against heavy German tanks in the last months of the war? 

ack-ack

I think he means the alot of people think that the Pershing is =/> then any heavy tank the germans had, like its the American equivalent of a tigerII.

Offline Butcher

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5323
Re: new Tank destoryers......
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2012, 05:47:30 PM »
I think he means the alot of people think that the Pershing is =/> then any heavy tank the germans had, like its the American equivalent of a tigerII.

That's a misunderstood statement just like the Me-410 was. When people looked at the gun package they assumed it would beat a Thunderbolt in a dive, out turn a spitfire, when in fact it was simply an overweight buff killer.

The germans attempted to field most if not all Medium Tank Platoons in Normandy with Panthers, the early Pershings were actually to field 76mm guns. One of the reasons was Patton who actually knew NOTHING about tanks at thie time, his technical judgement was quite poor, in fact he wanted nothing
to do with the pershing since "Shermans" were adaquate for the job. Other generals played ball with their ideas, one suggested the 76mm being it was enough to take down Panzer 4s since "Tigers and Panthers are non-existant" you have to look at pre-normandy invasion for this, Italy for example.

Eventually the 90mm gun was used, due to its "similar" hitting power of the German 8.8cm L/56 of the Tiger tank, however certain rounds played a role in this as well.

Many ideas were thrown around over the years, my argument has always been if the Americans appreciated the intelligence of the status of Panther Tanks deployed in France in 1944, then the Americans might of accelerated research on such things as a 90mm gun on the Sherman or producing quite a few more 76mm HVAP ammo.
The first M26 could of reached combat in June 1944 if certain generals had their way, but influenced generals like Patton really killed this, the first prototype came about around Feb of 1944.

The Pershing was not a "Tiger killer" or King Tiger killer, as this argument has played out so many times on this BBS, however German units were routinely operating at minimal strength - with most the armor units fighting in the East.

US and Brit tanks were simply no match for german tanks period, if it wasn't for the limited German units, the Pershing would of probably been ramped into production majorly, instead barely 40 or so were completed before 1944 came to an end.

On a fun note - a Panzer 4 was knocked out at 1,200 yards in Feb 1945 by a M26, beyond operating range of US tanks.
The First M26 was knocked out by 2 direct hits from a 150mm Howitzer, disabling its turret and tracks, the tank was repaired and brought back into service.

The most famous engagement by a groupd called Zebra mission (to evaluate the M26) was on March 6, 1945 - when a Panther tank from 9th Panzer division stationed in a courtyard in front of the cathedral at Cologne, ambushed an M4 sherman, blowing it up, however an T26E3 was sent into to deal with the Panther and slammed 3 rounds into it blowing the tank up, which was actually caught on camera by signal corps. You can see this film on youtube actually.


« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 06:14:27 PM by Butcher »
JG 52

Offline Rino

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8495
Re: new Tank destoryers......
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2012, 06:09:21 PM »
Pershing's faced german tanks, what many wanted were the Super Pershings which "believed" to go toe-to-toe with the King Tiger, which isn't true.

Pershing is just a heavier version of the Panther, less agility at 25mph, armor wise wasn't any better then a panther or less. The Gun can knock out a Tiger tank under 1,000 yards easy with HVAP, otherwise its AP rounds wouldn't dent a Tiger/Panther.


     This seems like a pretty complicated account for a "belief"

http://www.3ad.com/history/news/super.pershing.1.htm
80th FS Headhunters
PHAN
Proud veteran of the Cola Wars

Offline HawkerMKII

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1133
Re: new Tank destoryers......
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2012, 06:12:16 PM »
The M36 Slugger which carried the 90mm M3 gun or the 76 m1a2 it served from 1943 to 1945 with about 2000 built between  43' and 45' it would almost as powerful as the tiger2 with the 90mm but with less armor

The M10 Wolverine which carried the 76mm m7 gun or the 76mm M1A1 same as the one on our M4A3W(76)
The m10 served from 1943 to 1945

 :salute Eric19

Why, why, oh why would you want this Eric, an m16 in this game can take out a Tiger2, so why do we need a new tank killer :salute
8th of November 1965, 173RD Airborne <S>

Offline Butcher

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5323
Re: new Tank destoryers......
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2012, 06:23:21 PM »
     This seems like a pretty complicated account for a "belief"

http://www.3ad.com/history/news/super.pershing.1.htm

Here's the problem, I've read the same account in half a dozen articles - it isn't known if it was a Tiger or King Tiger - what reports I have read states its a Tiger tank that was knocked at 1,200 yards. A couple of things need to be taken into account first... Look at the time stamp,
the German army was pretty much destroyed, no veteran crews left - and tanks were designed pretty poor since late 1944.

It was one engagement, one tank on one - there is no eye witness to this, and its incredibly hard to give a judgement on this engagement. I read this same article 10 years ago, if you search the forums you will find the same link to the super pershing used a dozen times.

I wouldn't say 1 thing on the wishlist forum unless I actually researched the hell out of it, for example all my info comes from Osprey Vangards M-26/46 Pershing.
JG 52