Gun Accidents.....how safe are you? really?

[Maverick]

Simple truism. If you are handling a weapon and starting to do any maintenance on it without checking or taking steps to insure it is unloaded first, you are a certified idiot. You cannot design intelligence into the weapon superior to the person handling it.

[FireDrgn]

People are not well disposed to following rigourous procedures and getting it correct 100% of the time. Add in pressure of consequence, fatique, interuptions, miscommunication etc. and watch the errors escalate. I should have thought this statement was evident because neglegant discharges do happen.

A pistol is only inert until someone picks it up, at which point it becomes a dangerous component in an interaction between person and machine. Any design which encourages a mental muddling of controls and procedures increases the possibility of confusion and raises the likelyhood of an ND and I think that is unfortunate.

I can think of several alternate solutions which would tolerate an uncleared chamber during disassembly and would require no dry firing. I think this would increase safety without losing any functionality or encouraging poor weapon handling habbits. It would just be more fault tolerant.

I have no interest in product loyalty or how things have been made to this point. I think it is a shame that people are hurt or even killed as a result of someone making a very simple mistake when a more holistic or intelligent design could avoid that.

Your using the same begging the question logical fallacies.  You have to apply negligent design to all guns. There is no such thing as safer.

The first step is to clear the weapon.  There is no design that can MUDDLE anything when the first step is to clear the gun.

How do you not see that you have not even gotten to the design yet and the mind is already muddled.   The very first step is to clear the weapon. Or you are following the fire procedure.   

I can just imagine you telling a group of kids that your gun is safer.    You dont even see the logical fallacies let alone the dangers of your thinking.

If you get anyone to believe any gun is safer, then you have muddled their mind. 








 

[MarineUS]

I love guns. I honestly do. I love learning how they work and I love using them for sport/target shooting. It's a lot of fun and releases a lot of stress.

I would never want to ban guns, however; I do ask that everyone be careful with them and be responsible. If you own a gun, protect it. Keep it safe and away from criminals.

Vanessa lost someone very close to her (a childhood friend) Wednesday and she found out this evening. He was shot. Would they have killed him even if they didn't have a gun? Yes.

It's so sad. The kid was only 21 years old and was visiting family. He lives in Alaska and they live here in Georgia.




----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.beckfuneralhome.com/obits/obituary.php?id=236383

James Eugene Close, Jr., 21 of Lakemont, Georgia,  passed away suddenly Wednesday, December 5, 2012.

He was born in Anchorage, Alaska and was the son of James Eugene Close, Sr. and  Dawn Carla Gordon Close.

In addition to his parents, he is survived by a brother, Joel Grady R. Close and a sister, Triston Joleen Close.

James had worked as a turf keeper and attended the Job Corp for welding.  He enjoyed camping, fishing, boxing and he loved kids.

The family will receive friends at Beck Funeral Home Monday, December 10, 2012 from 5:30 PM to 7:30 PM.

Beck Funeral Home, in Clayton, Georgia, is in charge of the arrangements. If there are any questions, please call 706-782-9599. An online Memorial Register Book is available at www.beckfuneralhome.com.

[W7LPNRICK]

No such thing as a poorly designed disassembly procedure. It has a disassembly procedure. Follow it and it is safe 100% of the time.

Only a human can poorly follow the procedure.

Try disassembly of a ruger mark 22 pistol.

If you pull the trigger and there is a bullet in the chamber it is designed to fire 100% of the time.
Your not following the disassembly procedure if there is still a bullet in the chamber and it is pointed in an unsafe direction.

Your following the firing procedure.


Sir your logic is flawed, period.

 

This is a free forum anyone can express an opinion, no matter how wrong you are   

[W7LPNRICK]

All humans make mistakes NOT all humans make mistakes with a GLOCK.   The design may have more steps or different procedure. You have to apply your argument to all firearms including the "safer" design .  It is clear that your argument relies on humans making mistakes.
    When you REMOVE humans make mistakes from your argument then you can clearly see that all guns are SAFE.   Therefore there is no way to claim any gun is safer. Therefore you must apply humans make mistakes to all firearms not just the Glock or any other with a different  design.


"Relies on a rigorous procedure" is subjective and is not known to be true for anyone that its not rigorous for. 
        The Glock relies on a procedure.  A "different design" relies on a decocking procedure that when not followed fires the gun also. 

I think this is your real  argument ? :   design =  + or - humans making mistakes , therefore a better design is safer. 
 
 

NO ONE CLAIMED THIS!

[W7LPNRICK]

What a bunch of absolutists claiming un-provable emotionally charge nonsense. Statistically speaking....Purely statistically, if more accidental discharges/injuries are or could be shown, then it is a less safe design no matter how that makes you feel. Don't argue emotionally because you're smart enough not to screw up & shoot yourself. That's not what has been said. The Glock is a great pistol. I love mine. Unless you work for Glock marketing in some way, stop crying about our statements  It is still a great pistol. I would bet statistically it could be proven, more people have accident discharges with the Glock, than ANY OTHER MAJOR BRAND PISTOL. Does that mean I don't like my pistol? No! I just take strict precautions every time I handle it. JEEEZ! Let it go....

[Tank-Ace]

It's remarkable how agitated people can become when they think you are criticising their favourite product while at the same time completely failing to understand the underlying point that is drawing the criticism.

The design feature in Tank-Ace's quote is questionable in my opinion because it relies on a rigourous procedure to be followed by the operator and unfortunately human beings are demonstrably poor at doing so. Despite all the superfluous comments to dismiss this point I think you / we all accept this potential failing in the man / machine relationship instinctively, since I have no doubt you all point the weapon in a safe direction when dry firing.

I'm actually not a huge fan of Glock in particular, or pistols in general. Good for PDW's and security, but to me guns are primarily for hunting, which is why I perfer long-arms. That and any long-arm works as well as or better than a pistol for things like home-defense (12ga is more intimidating than a 9mm). And if the appocalypse comes, I'd rather deal with the crazies at a couple hundred yards with the 30-06, rather than let them get close and deal with them with the pistol.

Plus rifle-caliber rounds pack more stopping power.



But regardless, the reason the man was shot isn't because he had to follow a complex or tedious procedure, but because he failed to check to see if it was safe, which is something you should do before grabbing a firearm, yet alone disassembling one.

I mean blaming Glock is like blaming the PDU when some dumb-arse gets electrocuted rewiring a switch because he didn't kill the power at the circut breaker first. "You provided power to his home; how dare you!"

[Sonicblu]

This is a free forum anyone can express an opinion, no matter how wrong you are

ditto

[Sonicblu]

Statistically speaking....Purely statistically, if more accidental discharges/injuries are or could be shown, then it is a less safe design no matter how that makes you feel

it "could" be shown that more people own  that design of gun.

Im up for it though show the statistics.......then we will make conclusions.

i remember reading an article that toyota camary's were the number one stolen vehicle in the U.S. I owned a camera and was worried that my car would get stolen just because it was a camary, until i learned that it was the most ubiquitous car on the planet. It had less thefts per 1000 cars than most others.
it was actually "safer" to own than many others.

this will be interesting.......

[Sonicblu]

To all the design  is not as safe guys out there.

How can you design the glock to be safer?

I would like to know if I keep a bullet in the chamber point it in unsafe direction and pull the trigger, how can you design it to be safer?

[DJ111]

I would like to know if I keep a bullet in the chamber point it in unsafe direction and pull the trigger, how can you design it to be safer?

 

[Karnak]

A man accidentally killed his 7 year old son in PA when the handgun he thought was unloaded discharged while he was getting into his truck.  He had gone to a gun store to try to sell the handgun and a rifle and after being told by the shop that they didn't buy used guns returned to his vehicle.  Apparently he had stowed the rifle and was reaching to put the handgun in the center counsel when it discharged.  A seven year old boy is dead and a father who loved his son now has to live with the knowledge that a careless moment on his part killed his son.

Please always remember to treat every gun as though it is loaded.  Safety first and above all else.

[NOT]

Please always remember to treat every gun as though it is loaded.  Safety first and above all else.

X10,000,000,000,000

[ink]

A man accidentally killed his 7 year old son in PA when the handgun he thought was unloaded discharged while he was getting into his truck.  He had gone to a gun store to try to sell the handgun and a rifle and after being told by the shop that they didn't buy used guns returned to his vehicle.  Apparently he had stowed the rifle and was reaching to put the handgun in the center counsel when it discharged.  A seven year old boy is dead and a father who loved his son now has to live with the knowledge that a careless moment on his part killed his son.

Please always remember to treat every gun as though it is loaded.  Safety first and above all else.

wow...that would be unbearable 

[VonMessa]

wow...that would be unbearable 

... and highly stupid