F2a brewster on CV's?

[Motherland]

I don't get this?  What is it about this game that is so historically accurate? The main arena is a "sandbox" to have fun with.  In the Main arena you have everything fighting every thing?  Yet put the Brewster on the CV and whoa!! ....we have some historical issue here?

 The F2a is close enough, yet according to the player base the Brewster on a CV would stand the game on it's head??.....B.S. 

The next time a Me262 shoots down a Zeke in the main arena be sure to be just as outraged.  Or maybe when a P51 shoots down another P51?  Wow That's historical immersion for you?  What's so historically accurate about either scenario?  After all the game is about fun ain't it?

  If you want historical accuracy go fly in AVA arena? ....oh my bad ...nobody flys there because nobody wants historically accurate!!

  I'd love to fly in AVA ...yet every time I logon there maybe 1 person in AVA.  So let's quit worrying about historically accurate because obviously that's is NOT what the masses want.  The only time Historical accuracy matters is in the AVA ...Snapshots or Events.  Even the pretense that historical accuracy matters in the MA is laughable.

Helm ...out

I believe that Hitech has stated that the goal of the main arena is a sandbox game with accurately modeled WWII equipment. Part of that accurate modeling is the fact that the B-239 did not have carrier gear.
On top of that, with game balance in mind, it wouldn't really be fair that all other carrier planes had the handicap of all of the extra equipment required and the Brewster did not. If the F2A were added it would be a different story...

[Helm]

I believe that Hitech has stated that the goal of the main arena is a sandbox game with accurately modeled WWII equipment. Part of that accurate modeling is the fact that the B-239 did not have carrier gear.
On top of that, with game balance in mind, it wouldn't really be fair that all other carrier planes had the handicap of all of the extra equipment required and the Brewster did not. If the F2A were added it would be a different story...

  If you look on the home page you will see that the F2A is the plane we have ...thats the reason I asked this question in the first place.

 Its the F2a...since it does not specify a sub type then it should qualify.  I am aware that the type would be the F2a-3 to be CV based.  Since its just a generic F2a i'm not sure what the beef is.  Like it said:  "It's close enough"

Helm...out

[Helm]

I believe that Hitech has stated that the goal of the main arena is a sandbox game with accurately modeled WWII equipment. Part of that accurate modeling is the fact that the B-239 did not have carrier gear.
On top of that, with game balance in mind, it wouldn't really be fair that all other carrier planes had the handicap of all of the extra equipment required and the Brewster did not. If the F2A were added it would be a different story...

How would a brewster on a CV be unfair to the other planes based on cv's?  All teams would have it. Frankly most CV's are battling an enemy base...rarely is there "pure" CV on CV action.  If you look on the home page it is listed as a F2a no sub type is specified.

Just to set the record straight: I'm no big fan of the F2a ...nor do I even fly it ....its seems that it NOT being on a CV is fairly silly since its the only F2a the game has.   Whats the big deal?

Helm...out

[Motherland]

  If you look on the home page you will see that the F2A is the plane we have ...thats the reason I asked this question in the first place.

 Its the F2a...since it does not specify a sub type then it should qualify.  I am aware that the type would be the F2a-3 to be CV based.  Since its just a generic F2a i'm not sure what the beef is.  Like it said:  "It's close enough"

Helm...out

It's the B-239, a special variant of the  F2A that was exported to Finland. That's why in the game it says Brewster B-239. The home page does not say it's the F2A-3 or the F2A-4, or F2A-1 or F2A-2 for that matter, because it's none of those aircraft. The B-239 is a separate aircraft from all of those. It was significantly lighter and more capable than any of its siblings than saw combat due largely to the lack of equipment that would've made it carrier capable.
The B-239 was never able to operate from a carrier and was a different beast from the F2A-3.

[Ack-Ack]

 If you look on the home page you will see that the F2A is the plane we have ...thats the reason I asked this question in the first place.

 Its the F2a...since it does not specify a sub type then it should qualify.  I am aware that the type would be the F2a-3 to be CV based.  Since its just a generic F2a i'm not sure what the beef is.  Like it said:  "It's close enough"

Helm...out

The Brewster we have is the export version of the F2A-1, which was de-navalized and sold to the Finns as surplus.  I'm interested in knowing if the export versions of the F2A-2 (B-339B/C/D/E) were also de-navalized.

ack-ack

[Karnak]

Like it said:  "It's close enough"

It most certainly is not close enough.  It has very significantly better handling than the F2A-3.

[kvuo75]

It's the B-239, a special variant of the  F2A that was exported to Finland. That's why in the game it says Brewster B-239. The home page does not say it's the F2A-3 or the F2A-4, or F2A-1 or F2A-2 for that matter, because it's none of those aircraft. The B-239 is a separate aircraft from all of those. It was significantly lighter and more capable than any of its siblings than saw combat due largely to the lack of equipment that would've made it carrier capable.
The B-239 was never able to operate from a carrier and was a different beast from the F2A-3.

STOP WITH THIS LOGIC.  THE BREWSTER IS OVERMODELED.  THEY'RE BOTH CALLED BREWSTER.

ITS LIKE HOW CAN A FM2 OUT TURN A F4F ? NO WAY!  HACK!

[Lusche]

We should enable the 109K on Cvs. after all, it's 'close enough' to the CV capable versions of the 109 

[cbxsteve]

STOP WITH THIS LOGIC.  THE BREWSTER IS OVERMODELED.  THEY'RE BOTH CALLED BREWSTER.

ITS LIKE HOW CAN A FM2 OUT TURN A F4F ? NO WAY!  HACK!

"It was a DOG! But the early models, before they weighed it all down with armorplate, radios and other sh__, they were pretty sweet little ships. Not real fast, but the little fu__s could turn and roll in a phonebooth. Oh yeah--sweet little ship; but some engineer went and fu__ed it up."   Pappy Boyington 1977

I believe the "...armorplate, radios, and other sh__..." are the main accouterments that distinguish the B-239 from the F2-A. If Pappy thought it was a hot ride maneuverability wise, I don't think the modelling in-game is a stretch.

CBXSteve

[zarkov]

The B-239 was the version exported to the Finns and they're different from the versions used by the USMC, RAF and the Dutch East Indies Air Forces due to:

1)  They were lighter - the later versions were about 600-1000 lbs heavier due to a combination of the B-239 having un-needed equipment removed and the later versions having extra equipment added in order to satisfy specs
2)  Their engines were better - the Finns tuned the engines and got improved performance; when the later versions were manufactured, there was an engine shortage in the US and a lot of them ended up with refurbished engines taken from airliners

So...the B-239 is probably no over-modeled...and there may not be a point in modeling the later versions since THESE versions were total dogs that the Japanese managed to drive from the skies while flying Ki-27's, let alone K-43's and Zeros.

[Karnak]

So...the B-239 is probably no over-modeled...and there may not be a point in modeling the later versions since THESE versions were total dogs that the Japanese managed to drive from the skies while flying Ki-27's, let alone K-43's and Zeros.

So the Japanese side should face the much better ones they didn't have to face in reality?

Seems like everyone wants to bend over backwards to make it easier than it already is for the US in US vs Japan settings.

[Ack-Ack]

So the Japanese side should face the much better ones they didn't have to face in reality?

Seems like everyone wants to bend over backwards to make it easier than it already is for the US in US vs Japan settings.

It would be nice to have either the B-339E, C or D versions that fought against the Japanese in the Dutch East Indies and Malaya.

ack-ack

[Saxman]

As I recall, one of the 339 variants (I THINK it was the Dutch) actually did quite well for itself. It was ultimately only doomed by weight of numbers.

The problem with planes like the F2A-3 is that while they meet the criteria for being added, they saw SO LITTLE combat (only ONE engagement in the case of the F2A-3) that there's almost no value in adding them. The F4F-3, F6F-3, TBD Devastator and SB2C Helldiver area all more important to rounding out the US carrier plane set, and those aren't even high priority machines (He-111 and Ki-43 are probably the two most noticeable gaps in the plane set right now).

[mipoikel]

[zarkov]

So the Japanese side should face the much better ones they didn't have to face in reality?

Seems like everyone wants to bend over backwards to make it easier than it already is for the US in US vs Japan settings.

Errr...no...the point I was trying to make is that the Brewster modeled in the game (the B-239) is NOT the model that faced the Japanese so it probably is not overmodeled and really shouldn't be used in Japanese vs. Allies scenarios.  The model that faced the Japanese had a different designation and is not modeled in the game.  Anyway, with the exception of Midway, the version of the Brewster that fought the Japanese mainly fought against the Ki-27 and the Ki-43, neither of which are modeled in AH.  If you're going to demand that HTC, for the sake of accuracy, model the version of the Brewster that fought the Japanese, you should also insist that HTC also model the Japanese aircraft that most often fought the Brewster.  Otherwise, in US vs. Japan settings, the Japanese would have it much easier than they did in real life (assuming that the Zero is used as a Ki-43 substitute).

Besides which, I'm not sure if HTC would get a lot of mileage out of modeling a version of the Brewster that was a bit of a pig, even when the British, in desperation, replaced all the .50's with .303's to reduce weight and try to squeeze some more performance out of it.