Backpacks

[pembquist]

Don't know what you're on about with this "Cadillac" stuff.  Fact is ......

You might be more persuasive if you weren't condescending and pedantic.

[VonMessa]

Don't know what you're on about with this "Cadillac" stuff.  Fact is there are hundreds of packs out there that are bigger, lighter, more comfortable, more practical, more durable, and just better then the ALICE system for what you're doing.  The ALICE system was great for the military in the 1980s, but there are much better solutions nowadays.  There are many, many internal frame packs that could easily fit everything on that ALICE on the inside, and be lighter and more comfortable while doing it.

I've worked as a backpacking guide in the Wind River range Wyoming for 7 summers.  And trust me, the kids who borrowed dad's old external frame pack from the 70's or 80's for their trip, always regretted it.  Frame squeaking with every step, half their gear banging around lashed to the frame and falling off every mile or two, no load-lifter straps and no torso adjustment means the load never fit right, wearing them down, frame rubbing into shoulders, pins that hold the bag to the frame breaking.  A good, proper fitting, properly loaded pack on trips like that is the difference between misery and ecstasy.

In my mind the ONLY thing external frames are good for now days is big game hunting, when you just need a bare frame to lash a quarter elk or deer to.

And why on earth are you carrying 3 1/2 gallons of water?   That's over 20lbs man.    Where are you camping, the Sahara?

Now I'm not afraid of roughing it, I've even been through a 2 week survival course in the Southern Utah desert where I wasn't allowed ANY pack (just a tarp and some rope).  But given the choice, why be miserable?   I'll take my nice high-tech, ultra-light, modern backpacking gear any day.

I suppose a lot of that is correct for those not familiar with the ALICE system.  I have had mine for more years than my children have been around.  It has served me well in many situations and sits in the corner, packed for 3 days excepting food and water.  Old habits die hard.  

Between having mine for so long and owning a sailboat for many years, my lashings never fall off an my knots do not fail.  I have the packing of the load down to a science so it fits right for me.  The only thing I have done to it is weld the frame in one spot were it failed and replaced the kidney pad.  I'm not knocking new technology at all but I will use this until it no longer serves me well.  I haven't tried any new stuff out because I haven't needed to, yet.  I guess I have just grown sentimentally attached over the years.

As for the water?  It was a scouting trip on the Appalachian Trail.  It never fails that, regardless of much water scouts/parents are told to take, there are always a few that think, because it is November and chilly, they do not need as much water and they run out.  I always bring extra for those folks.  It is still less weight than carrying dehydrated people out of the bush  

[saggs]

I suppose a lot of that is correct for those not familiar with the ALICE system.  I have had mine for more years than my children have been around.  It has served me well in many situations and sits in the corner, packed for 3 days excepting food and water.  Old habits die hard.  

Between having mine for so long and owning a sailboat for many years, my lashings never fall off an my knots do not fail.  I have the packing of the load down to a science so it fits right for me.  The only thing I have done to it is weld the frame in one spot were it failed and replaced the kidney pad.  I'm not knocking new technology at all but I will use this until it no longer serves me well.  I haven't tried any new stuff out because I haven't needed to, yet.  I guess I have just grown sentimentally attached over the years.

As for the water?  It was a scouting trip on the Appalachian Trail.  It never fails that, regardless of much water scouts/parents are told to take, there are always a few that think, because it is November and chilly, they do not need as much water and they run out.  I always bring extra for those folks.  It is still less weight than carrying dehydrated people out of the bush  

It's all good, if it works for you it works.  I did not mean to be "condescending and pedantic" sorry if that was the tone.

As for the water, I still don't get it... ... 20+lbs of water seems crazy to me.   Aren't there quite a few streams/lakes along the Appalachian trail?  

With each of the dozens of Scout trips I've guided I do a full pack "shake-down" with everyone in the group (scoutmasters included) before we hit the trail.  Not only to make sure they have what they need (enough water) but also to get rid of the stuff they don't need.  They usually thank me after I shave 10-20lbs off each of their packs.

[VonMessa]

It's all good, if it works for you it works.  I did not mean to be "condescending and pedantic" sorry if that was the tone.

As for the water, I still don't get it... ... 20+lbs of water seems crazy to me.   Aren't there quite a few streams/lakes along the Appalachian trail?  

With each of the dozens of Scout trips I've guided I do a full pack "shake-down" with everyone in the group (scoutmasters included) before we hit the trail.  Not only to make sure they have what they need (enough water) but also to get rid of the stuff they don't need.  They usually thank me after I shave 10-20lbs off each of their packs.

I didn't take it as being

You have never seen the scout troop my son was in.  They were the antithesis of "Be Prepared"    

On no less than two occasions, while at an "organized camping trip" (i.e. younger scouts, in cabins, with a pre-planned menu), they either ran out of, or completely forgot to pack one or more food items on the menu.

Scoutmaster was so fat that he could barely hike flat terrain without huffing and puffing.

Also found out that my son's den leader was a full-blown drunk (not an alcoholic that attends meetings) when he brought beer on the hike on the Appalachian trail while making his kid hump all their water and when he was out in the parking lot, sneaking beers at the Blue and Gold banquet instead of taking care of his den...

[Devonai]

After six years in the infantry I can tell you definitively that 3 1/2 gallons of water is a "good start." 

[MarineUS]

I have two old school ALICE packs that I don't use. I bought me a replacement pack this past weekend.

I decided to get me a "bug out bag/pack" before leaving base on Saturday.

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[VonMessa]

I might be able to fit my lunch in there...   

[MarineUS]

It's a LOT bigger than it looks in the pics (you pervs).

Plus it's a 3-day bug out pack, not a be gone for a month pack lol. Humping an ILBE or ALICE is overkill. I don't care how far into some mountains you're going, it's just too much unless you're setting up a permanent FOB/OP.