Author Topic: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!  (Read 8103 times)

Offline Volron

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2012, 12:45:28 PM »
Here's a few examples, more exhaustive list in the link.

Date    Squadron  Name                 Plane   Kill(s)         Status after mission

06.02.42 LeLv 24  Ahlstenin, J.        BW-353                  Landing accident; AC repairable; pilot okay
26.02.42 LeLv 24  Ahokas, L.           BW-364  1.00 MiG-3      Okay
16.08.42 LeLv 24  Ahokas, L.           BW-351  1.00 I-16       Okay
22.11.42 LeLv 24  Ahokas, L.           BW-351  1.00 DB-3F      Okay
04.05.43 LeLv 24  Ahokas, L.           BW-351  1.00 I-153      Okay
20.05.43 LeLv 24  Ahokas, L.           BW-351  1.00 LaG-5      Okay
23.09.43 LeLv 24  Ahokas, L.           BW-355  2.00 LaGG-3     Okay
25.06.41 LeLv 24  Ahola, L.            BW-388                  0.00 Crashed on takeoff; AC ooc; pilot okay
09.07.41 LeLv 24  Alho, M.A.           BW-383  1.00 I-153      Okay
17.09.41 LeLv 24  Alho, M.A.           BW-383  1.00 MiG-3      Okay
07.10.41 LeLv 24  Alho, M.A.           BW-383  1.00 I-16       Okay
26.02.42 LeLv 24  Alho, M.A.           BW-383  2.00 MiG-3      Okay
26.10.42 LeLv 24  Alho, M.A.           BW-383  1.00 I-16       Okay
22.11.42 LeLv 24  Alho, M.A.           BW-383  1.00 Tomahawk   Okay
23.11.42 LeLv 24  Alho, M.A.           BW-383  1.00 Pe-2       Okay
10.03.43 LeLv 24  Alho, M.A.           BW-383  1.00 MiG-3      Okay
18.04.43 LeLv 24  Alho, M.A.           BW-383  1.00 LaGG-3     Okay
18.04.43 LeLv 24  Alho, M.A.           BW-383  1.00 LaG-5      Okay
21.04.43 LeLv 24  Alho, M.A.           BW-383  1.00 Jak-1      Okay
02.05.43 LeLv 24  Alho, M.A.           BW-383  0.50 LaGG-3     Okay
04.05.43 LeLv 24  Alho, M.A.           BW-383  1.00 I-153      Okay
05.06.43 KoeL     Alho, M.A.           BW-392                  Crashed testing Humu design; pilot killed
29.01.42 LeLv 24  Alvesalo, U.         BW-389                  Crashed; AC destroyed; pilot badly hurt
06.04.42 LeLv 24  Alvesalo, U.         BW-354  1.00 SB         Okay
08.06.42 LeLv 24  Alvesalo, U.         BW-394  1.00 Hurricane  Force landed after damage in air fight; AC destroyed; pilot okay
25.06.42 LeLv 24  Anttila, K.          BW-381                  Force landed after damage; AC destroyed; pilot okay
29.07.42 LeLv 24  Anttila, K.          BW-379                  Ground loop; AC ooc; pilot okay
04.10.42 LeLv 24  Anttila, K.          BW-356  1.00 MiG-3      Okay
22.02.44 LeLv 24  Anttila, K.          BW-371                  Crashed; AC destroyed; pilot killed
09.03.42 LeLv 24  Avikainen, O.        BW-386  1.00 MiG-3      Okay
14.03.42 LeLv 24  Avikainen, O.        BW-366  1.00 MiG-3      Okay
18.04.42 LeLv 24  Avikainen, O.        BW-384  1.00 LaGG-3     Okay
16.05.43 LeLv 24  Avikainen, O.        BW-383  1.00 LaGG-3     Okay
05.06.43 LeLv 24  Avikainen, O.        BW-370  1.00 Jak-1      Okay
05.06.43 LeLv 24  Avikainen, O.        BW-370  1.00 Pe-2       Okay
17.09.41 LeLv 24  Dahl, J.             BW-393  1.00 MiG-3      Okay
18.08.41 LeLv 24  Elfving, H.          BW-387  0.50 I-153      Okay
26.08.41 LeLv 24  Elfving, H.          BW-370                  Landing accident; AC ooc; pilot okay
07.10.41 LeLv 24  Elfving, H.          BW-394  1.00 I-16       Okay
03.12.41 LeLv 24  Elfving, H.          BW-385                  Shot down by AA; pilot killed
30.06.41 LeLv 24  Ginman, C.           BW-392  1.00 SB-2bis    Okay
27.09.41 LeLv 24  Ginman, C.           BW-392  1.00 I-15bis    Okay
24.04.43 LeLv 24  Halonen, E.          BW-365                  Force landed ; AC repairable; pilot okay
23.09.41 LeLv 24  Heinonen, T.         BW-365  0.50 I-16       Okay
10.01.42 LeLv 24  Heinonen, T.         BW-379  1.00 MiG-3      Okay
26.02.42 LeLv 24  Heinonen, T.         BW-359                  Shot down, pilot parachuted safely
25.10.42 LeLv 24  Heinonen, T.         BW-393  1.00 Hurricane  Okay
18.04.43 LeLv 24  Heinonen, T.         BW-373  1.00 Jak-1      Okay
21.04.43 LeLv 24  Heinonen, T.         BW-354  1.00 LaG-5      Shot down, pilot killed
17.10.44 LeLv 26  Heleniuksen, O.      BW-367                  Crashed; AC destroyed; pilot okay
23.02.43 LeLv 24  Herrala, H.          BW-368  1.00 I-16       Okay
03.10.44 LeLv 26  Hietala, O.          BW-367  1.00 Ju-87      Okay
01.08.41 LeLv 24  Hovi, M.             BW-389  0.50 I-153      Okay
19.07.41 LeLv 24  Huotari, J.A.A.      BW-353  1.00 I-153      Okay
12.08.41 LeLv 24  Huotari, J.A.A.      BW-353  1.00 I-153      Okay
23.09.41 LeLv 24  Huotari, J.A.A.      BW-353  1.00 I-16       Okay
09.03.42 LeLv 24  Huotari, J.A.A.      BW-380  1.00 MiG-3      Okay
28.03.42 LeLv 24  Huotari, J.A.A.      BW-353  2.00 I-153      Okay
14.08.42 LeLv 24  Huotari, J.A.A.      BW-353  1.00 Hurricane  Okay
16.08.42 LeLv 24  Huotari, J.A.A.      BW-352  2.00 I-16       Okay
28.09.43 LeLv 24  Huotari, J.A.A.      BW-355  0.50 LaGG-3     Okay
30.06.41 LeLv 24  Ikonen, S.H.         BW-386  1.00 ARK-3      Okay
17.09.41 LeLv 24  Ikonen, S.H.         BW-386  1.00 MiG-3      Okay
12.08.42 LeLv 24  Ikonen, S.H.         BW-370  1.00 I-16       Okay
22.11.42 LeLv 24  Ikonen, S.H.         BW-386  1.00 Spitfire   Okay
07.10.41 LeLv 24  Jarvi, T.T.          BW-393  1.00 I-153      Okay
26.10.41 LeLv 24  Jarvi, T.T.          BW-383  1.00 MiG-3      Okay
06.08.42 LeLv 24  Jarvi, T.T.          BW-377  1.00 I-16       Okay
22.11.42 LeLv 24  Jarvi, T.T.          BW-377  1.00 Spitfire   Okay
10.03.43 LeLv 24  Jarvi, T.T.          BW-377  1.00 MiG-3      Okay
18.04.43 LeLv 24  Jarvi, T.T.          BW-377  2.00 LaGG-3     Okay
21.04.43 LeLv 24  Jarvi, T.T.          BW-377  1.00 Jak-1      Okay
02.05.43 LeLv 24  Jarvi, T.T.          BW-377  0.50 LaGG-3     Okay
05.06.43 LeLv 24  Jarvi, T.T.          BW-377  1.00 Jak-1      Okay
18.06.44 LeLv 26  Juurinen, A.         BW-382  1.00 Pe-2       Okay
27.06.44 LeLv 26  Juurinen, A.         BW-382  1.00 R-5        Okay
15.07.44 LeLv 26  Juurinen, A.         BW-382  1.00 LaGG-3     Okay
09.07.41 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-364  2.00 I-153      Okay
21.07.41 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-353  1.00 I-153      Okay
01.08.41 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-353  2.00 I-16       Okay
12.08.41 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-364  3.00 I-153      Okay
26.09.41 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-363  1.00 I-16       Okay
26.09.41 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-364  1.00 I-15bis    Okay
26.09.41 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-364  1.00 I-153      Okay
28.09.41 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-364  1.00 MiG-1      Okay
14.12.41 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-364  1.00 MiG-3      Okay
28.01.42 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-364  1.00 Hurricane  Okay
06.02.42 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-364  2.00 SB-2bis    Okay
09.03.42 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-364  1.00 MiG-3      Okay
14.03.42 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-364  1.00 MiG-3      Okay
28.03.42 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-364  2.00 I-153      Okay
25.06.42 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-364  2.00 Hurricane  Okay
13.08.42 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-364  1.00 Pe-2       Okay
16.08.42 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-364  2.00 I-16       Okay
18.08.42 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-364  3.00 I-16       Okay
20.09.42 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-364  1.00 Spitfire   Okay
20.09.42 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-364  1.00 MiG-1      Okay
20.10.42 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-364  1.00 He-111     Okay
26.10.42 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-368  1.00 Hurricane  Okay
22.11.42 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-364  1.00 Spitfire   Okay
23.11.42 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-351  1.00 Tomahawk   Okay
04.07.41 LeLv 24  Karhunen, J.         BW-366  1.00 SB-2bis    Okay
09.07.41 LeLv 24  Karhunen, J.         BW-363  1.00 I-153      Okay
12.08.41 LeLv 24  Karhunen, J.         BW-366  1.00 I-153      Okay
23.09.41 LeLv 24  Karhunen, J.         BW-366  1.50 I-16       Okay
26.09.41 LeLv 24  Karhunen, J.         BW-366  2.00 I-153      Okay
17.12.41 LeLv 24  Karhunen, J.         BW-366  1.00 I-153      Okay
17.12.41 LeLv 24  Karhunen, J.         BW-366  1.00 Hurricane  Okay
26.02.42 LeLv 24  Karhunen, J.         BW-366  1.00 MiG-1      Okay
26.02.42 LeLv 24  Karhunen, J.         BW-366  1.00 MiG-3      Okay
02.07.42 LeLv 24  Karhunen, J.         BW-388  1.00 Pe-2       Okay
04.08.42 LeLv 24  Karhunen, J.         BW-366  1.00 Hurricane  Okay
14.08.42 LeLv 24  Karhunen, J.         BW-366  2.00 Hurricane  Okay
16.08.42 LeLv 24  Karhunen, J.         BW-388  3.00 I-16       Okay
18.08.42 LeLv 24  Karhunen, J.         BW-388  2.00 I-16       Okay
18.08.42 LeLv 24  Karhunen, J.         BW-388  1.00 Pe-2       Okay
20.09.42 LeLv 24  Karhunen, J.         BW-366  1.00 Spitfire   Okay
26.10.42 LeLv 24  Karhunen, J.         BW-366  1.00 Spitfire   Okay
23.02.43 LeLv 24  Karhunen, J.         BW-366  1.00 I-16       Okay
02.03.43 LeLv 24  Karhunen, J.         BW-366  1.00 I-153      Okay
21.04.43 LeLv 24  Karhunen, J.         BW-364  1.00 Jak-1      Okay
04.05.43 LeLv 24  Karhunen, J.         BW-366  1.00 I-153      Okay
25.05.43 LeR 3    Karu, V.J.           BW-???  1.00 He-111     Okay
...

http://www.warbirdforum.com/scores.htm

Oh how I WISH we had even HALF of those planes listed as shot down by the Finns. :cry
Quote from: hitech
Wow I find it hard to believe it has been almost 38 days since our last path. We should have release another 38 versions by now  :bhead
HiTech
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What on Earth makes you think that i said that sir?!
My guess would be scotch.

Offline Karnak

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2012, 01:11:12 PM »
Oh how I WISH we had even HALF of those planes listed as shot down by the Finns. :cry
I show us as having six out of the sixteen, if I am allowed to count the La-5FN for the La-5.

We have:
I-16
La-5FN
P-40
Hurricane
Ju87
Spitfire

We don't have:
MiG-3
DB-3F
I-153
LaGG-3
Pe-2
Yak-1
SB
ARK-3
R-5
He111
Petals floating by,
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             As she remembers me-

Offline bozon

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2012, 02:39:56 PM »
K/D ratio is not a measure of how good the plane is. The Finns managed that INSPITE of flying Brewsters, not because if it. They were simply much better pilots than the Russians the opposed, especially in the early 40's. The German aces also had a party on the eastern front in the early years, though in the case of the LW they really did have better planes. I also suspect that the better VVS pilots were sent to fight the Germans. Much of that changed by the end of 44' though.
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline Wmaker

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2012, 03:39:15 PM »
lol yeah like a 1000hp out of an engine that made 850 maybe

No amount of repeating will make this nonsense true.

(Last time Megalodon was at it: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,327730.0.html)

About Brewster's power settings from primary source data coming straight from manufacturer:

Source: Brewster Aeronautical Corporation Report 350: Detail Specification for Model 239 Airplane Class VF
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 04:00:14 PM by Wmaker »
Wmaker
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Thank you for the Brewster HTC!

Offline Karnak

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2012, 04:13:36 PM »
K/D ratio is not a measure of how good the plane is. The Finns managed that INSPITE of flying Brewsters, not because if it. They were simply much better pilots than the Russians the opposed, especially in the early 40's. The German aces also had a party on the eastern front in the early years, though in the case of the LW they really did have better planes. I also suspect that the better VVS pilots were sent to fight the Germans. Much of that changed by the end of 44' though.
Well, I've seen quite a few comments from pilots who flew the F2A-1 and B-239 that paint it as a very agile fighter.  It is the F2A-3 that was junk.
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2012, 06:14:52 PM »
K/D ratio is not a measure of how good the plane is. The Finns managed that INSPITE of flying Brewsters, not because if it. They were simply much better pilots than the Russians the opposed, especially in the early 40's. The German aces also had a party on the eastern front in the early years, though in the case of the LW they really did have better planes. I also suspect that the better VVS pilots were sent to fight the Germans. Much of that changed by the end of 44' though.

I for one am not a guy to hop on any bandwagon and I love to play the Devil's Advocate.  The question begs of pilot quality: Were the Finn's that good or were the Soviets that bad?  I mean really, it isn't like the Finn's were at the fore front of aviation development.  Training?  Technology? ACM's? The RAF, Luftwaffe, USAAF, Japan, and even the Soviets can all claim a piece of that pie.  Heck, even the Poles can at least stand on the PZL P.11 as an achievement.  Did the Finn's get some uber training that no one else knew about? Did they dump in some super juice in the fuel tank when no one was watching? I will give the Finn's the benefit of the doubt with the k/d ratio, it is impressive.  But when supposedly the Buffalo was the bottom of the barrel in the PTO, ETO, and MTO, yet do so well up north in the frigid air over Finland one has to wonder was it the Finn's that were really that good or was it is the Soviets who were really that bad???  And... just how much effort would it take for HTC to add in the version, the version we all were expecting in the first place, to be added in to AH because in EW scenarios the Brewster has every advantage over the Zekes and little needs to be said about that.   :headscratch:   

Please do not assume that I do not respect the Finnish pilots for their achievements and sacrifices in protecting their country, I hold them in nothing but the highest regards.       
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline icepac

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2012, 08:27:39 PM »
Thier flying success seems proportional to thier successes in rally, f1, and sniper victories.

Offline Karnak

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2012, 09:15:05 PM »
I seem to recall reading that it was the Finns who came up with the finger four formation.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2012, 10:18:56 PM »
"20.10.42 LeLv 24  Juutilainen, E.I.    BW-364  1.00 He-111     Okay"


Um ... Oops?
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Offline GScholz

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2012, 10:21:19 PM »
I for one am not a guy to hop on any bandwagon and I love to play the Devil's Advocate.  The question begs of pilot quality: Were the Finn's that good or were the Soviets that bad?  I mean really, it isn't like the Finn's were at the fore front of aviation development.  Training?  Technology? ACM's? The RAF, Luftwaffe, USAAF, Japan, and even the Soviets can all claim a piece of that pie.  Heck, even the Poles can at least stand on the PZL P.11 as an achievement.  Did the Finn's get some uber training that no one else knew about? Did they dump in some super juice in the fuel tank when no one was watching? I will give the Finn's the benefit of the doubt with the k/d ratio, it is impressive.  But when supposedly the Buffalo was the bottom of the barrel in the PTO, ETO, and MTO, yet do so well up north in the frigid air over Finland one has to wonder was it the Finn's that were really that good or was it is the Soviets who were really that bad???  And... just how much effort would it take for HTC to add in the version, the version we all were expecting in the first place, to be added in to AH because in EW scenarios the Brewster has every advantage over the Zekes and little needs to be said about that.   :headscratch:   

Please do not assume that I do not respect the Finnish pilots for their achievements and sacrifices in protecting their country, I hold them in nothing but the highest regards.       

They are crazy, and drunk! It helps when fighting Russians. ;)
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline BaldEagl

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2012, 10:32:25 PM »
lol yeah like a 1000hp out of an engine that made 850 maybe

That's not much of  stretch.  Growing up two of my friends had Chevy Chevelle's with 396 engines.  Max stock HP was 375 IIRC.  One was well over 450 HP while the older one was running a stock car modified engine at around 650 HP.  Oddly, the one running 450 HP blew up while the other kept running.
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.

Offline bangsbox

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2012, 01:33:01 AM »
I seem to recall reading that it was the Finns who came up with the finger four formation.

wasnt that the germans?
Werner Mölders, in spanish civil war?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 01:42:02 AM by bangsbox »

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2012, 02:37:28 AM »
lol yeah like a 1000hp out of an engine that made 850 maybe

I just wonder if all those kills have been checked against soviet losses?

In some cases they got credited more kills after Soviet records opened.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 02:40:27 AM by MrRiplEy[H] »
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2012, 02:43:05 AM »
I for one am not a guy to hop on any bandwagon and I love to play the Devil's Advocate.  The question begs of pilot quality: Were the Finn's that good or were the Soviets that bad?  I mean really, it isn't like the Finn's were at the fore front of aviation development.  Training?  Technology? ACM's? The RAF, Luftwaffe, USAAF, Japan, and even the Soviets can all claim a piece of that pie.  Heck, even the Poles can at least stand on the PZL P.11 as an achievement.  Did the Finn's get some uber training that no one else knew about? Did they dump in some super juice in the fuel tank when no one was watching? I will give the Finn's the benefit of the doubt with the k/d ratio, it is impressive.  But when supposedly the Buffalo was the bottom of the barrel in the PTO, ETO, and MTO, yet do so well up north in the frigid air over Finland one has to wonder was it the Finn's that were really that good or was it is the Soviets who were really that bad???  And... just how much effort would it take for HTC to add in the version, the version we all were expecting in the first place, to be added in to AH because in EW scenarios the Brewster has every advantage over the Zekes and little needs to be said about that.   :headscratch:   

Please do not assume that I do not respect the Finnish pilots for their achievements and sacrifices in protecting their country, I hold them in nothing but the highest regards.       

The finnish pilots were trained especially well on gunnery. It was stressed a lot in the training program. Also B&Z style fighting was successfully utilized from very early on.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2012, 02:48:41 AM »
No amount of repeating will make this nonsense true.

(Last time Megalodon was at it: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,327730.0.html)

About Brewster's power settings from primary source data coming straight from manufacturer:
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Source: Brewster Aeronautical Corporation Report 350: Detail Specification for Model 239 Airplane Class VF

The finnish version did have 1000hp engine though: http://www.warbirdforum.com/winston.htm

Quote
The 44 F2A-1 series Brewsters bought by the Finnish Government had the 950 hp export version of the Wright Cyclone R-1820-G5 engine. The aircraft were packed into containers and they were shipped to Stavanger, Norway and from there by rail to Sweden. The final assembly was done at the Saab factory in Trollhättan.

Winston and Brewster Winston traveled to the Brewster factory at Long Island, NY and met the general manager Dayton T. Brown. On the next day he went to Roosevelt field with Burke to fly the Brewster. The new version had a 1000 hp Wright Cyclone engine and Finnish texts in the cockpit. The speed was in kilometers per hour and the altitude in meters. It had two .50 cal guns in the wings and one in the fuselage, where there also was a .30 cal gun for close range work. Best climb was at 130 kts, approach 80 kts and touchdown 72 kts.

The finnish mechanics also corrected the reliability problems of the engine by reversing piston rings after which the engine became extremely reliable.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 02:54:32 AM by MrRiplEy[H] »
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone