Author Topic: 109K4's Can't Turn!  (Read 1504 times)

Offline RedBull1

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2769
Re: 109K4's Can't Turn!
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2013, 06:59:06 PM »
Do you have the engine sound turned down? If so, why? Couldn't tell if you were hitting WEP, did hear the flaps activate a couple times. Great game. Of course the peace de resistance is the cheat PM.  :x
I do, and I did that a long time ago to all planes, I believe it was because I couldn't hear Ventrillo at the time when I was talking to squaddies, especially if flying in formation - flaps, no idea why their sounds might be turned down ???

But again I did these changes when I like downloaded the game a year ago or whatever so I don't recall lol - Hell if a 262 is in the area I can't hear him even if hes 200 behind me because I totally turned jet sounds off - I couldn't hear watermelon over the jet engines I know lol

and Thanks all  :banana:
"There is absolutely no point discussing anything on the BBS, it's mostly populated by people who are right about everything, no one listens and everyone is just talking. People will argue over the shape of an egg." -Anonymous

Offline tunnelrat

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1739
Re: 109K4's Can't Turn!
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2013, 04:02:57 PM »
AWESOME job!

In-Game: 80hd
The Spartans do not enquire how many the enemy are but where they are.

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11633
Re: 109K4's Can't Turn!
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2013, 08:48:13 AM »
Great fight but the reality is that the A6M either had half elevator missing or a total noob piloting.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Nath[BDP]

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1267
Re: 109K4's Can't Turn!
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2013, 12:44:21 PM »
...Or can they? o.O


Sooo Yea, basically turn fighting an A6M with 3-6K of alt on me in a K4, with some karma for a picking spit16 at the end.


RedBull,

Let me preface this by saying that you are a very talented stick, and from the fights I've had with you during my brief stint in the cartoon skies a few months back, I was very impressed.

But it is a disservice to claim this is turn fighting, or in any way utilizing ACM that is in any way remotely realistic.  

I don't fault you for using it, since the flight model allows it, but I still question its tactical real life effectiveness.

I am specifically referring to one maneuver (if I can call it that) that is repeated ad nauseam in the video.  I have seen it used by others, and indeed I am guilty of using it to some extent.  

I discovered this peculiarity in the flight model when I returned last spring, and cataloged it in almost every plane in my video Kung Fu Fighting:  http://youtu.be/06f0GF0VAwA

At the top of the scissors, and indeed whenever the A6M is in a position along the right side of your plane ( 4 - 1 o'clock ) you induce a nose-swinging stall / spin maneuver where the nose of your plane pivots to the right as much as 30 degrees or more. You are departing controlled flight, as the stall horn turns off, and turns back on when you re-enter controlled flight.  Because this maneuver can be so quickly executed, airspeed drops dramatically by as much as 50-75 mph, and then bounces back to the previous airspeed almost instantly when controlled flight is resumed.  

I have several films executing this maneuver vs a number of opponents, and it seems most adequate in the 109K4, and to a lesser extent in the Ki84 or F6F.  Attempting this in some planes will just throw you into a deadly spin, such as the Ta 152.  In the 109K, it is easily recoverable.  

My questions to HTC remain:

What forces in flight dynamics allows the aircraft, through simple hard left rudder and hard right stick input to,

1) throw the plane radically sideways without losing forward momentum

2) reduce speed by a significant amount and then regain that speed almost instantly when the maneuver is complete

3) why in some aircraft does this cause nearly unrecoverable spins, and in others is entirely forgiving?

I somehow missed Shaw's coverage of this "maneuver" in "Fighter Combat Tactics and Maneuvering".
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 12:52:04 PM by Nath[BDP] »
++Blue Knights++
vocalist of the year


Offline Nath[BDP]

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1267
Re: 109K4's Can't Turn!
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2013, 12:50:50 PM »
dbl
++Blue Knights++
vocalist of the year


Offline RedBull1

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2769
Re: 109K4's Can't Turn!
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2013, 02:49:17 PM »
RedBull,

Let me preface this by saying that you are a very talented stick, and from the fights I've had with you during my brief stint in the cartoon skies a few months back, I was very impressed.

But it is a disservice to claim this is turn fighting, or in any way utilizing ACM that is in any way remotely realistic.  

I don't fault you for using it, since the flight model allows it, but I still question its tactical real life effectiveness.

I am specifically referring to one maneuver (if I can call it that) that is repeated ad nauseam in the video.  I have seen it used by others, and indeed I am guilty of using it to some extent.  

I discovered this peculiarity in the flight model when I returned last spring, and cataloged it in almost every plane in my video Kung Fu Fighting:  http://youtu.be/06f0GF0VAwA

At the top of the scissors, and indeed whenever the A6M is in a position along the right side of your plane ( 4 - 1 o'clock ) you induce a nose-swinging stall / spin maneuver where the nose of your plane pivots to the right as much as 30 degrees or more. You are departing controlled flight, as the stall horn turns off, and turns back on when you re-enter controlled flight.  Because this maneuver can be so quickly executed, airspeed drops dramatically by as much as 50-75 mph, and then bounces back to the previous airspeed almost instantly when controlled flight is resumed.  

I have several films executing this maneuver vs a number of opponents, and it seems most adequate in the 109K4, and to a lesser extent in the Ki84 or F6F.  Attempting this in some planes will just throw you into a deadly spin, such as the Ta 152.  In the 109K, it is easily recoverable.  

My questions to HTC remain:

What forces in flight dynamics allows the aircraft, through simple hard left rudder and hard right stick input to,

1) throw the plane radically sideways without losing forward momentum

2) reduce speed by a significant amount and then regain that speed almost instantly when the maneuver is complete

3) why in some aircraft does this cause nearly unrecoverable spins, and in others is entirely forgiving?

I somehow missed Shaw's coverage of this "maneuver" in "Fighter Combat Tactics and Maneuvering".

Hey you're spot on man, and I dunno just something I picked up in my time flying the k4.

I suppose that wasn't the perfect title but..well...yea, I'll try to pick a better title next time  :aok

 :salute
"There is absolutely no point discussing anything on the BBS, it's mostly populated by people who are right about everything, no one listens and everyone is just talking. People will argue over the shape of an egg." -Anonymous

Offline titanic3

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4235
Re: 109K4's Can't Turn!
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2013, 03:02:41 PM »
Wait...

K4 = Brewster = Spit16 = Ki84 = F6F?



Noob/hack/ghey/dweeb planes.  :eek:

  the game is concentrated on combat, not on shaking the screen.

semp

Offline Raphael

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2010
Re: 109K4's Can't Turn!
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2013, 02:02:08 AM »



 :O


Awesome!!!
Remember 08/08/2012
 Youtube videos - http://www.youtube.com/user/raphael103/featured
Game ID => Raphael
XO of Jg5

Offline Zacherof

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3993
Re: 109K4's Can't Turn!
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2013, 10:49:30 AM »
And here I tought I had the capability to beat you.  :bhead
In game name Xacherof
USN Sea Bee
**ELITE**
I am a meat popsicle

Offline Pawz

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 754
Re: 109K4's Can't Turn!
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2013, 05:52:15 PM »
Great stick rb nice rudder work!
When I die bury me in a P38.

I watch day after day, week after week, tour after tour, the Bishops and Rooks take bases and win maps while the Knights stand there with their thumbs stuck in their butts. It's just pathetic!

Offline BluBerry

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1937
Re: 109K4's Can't Turn!
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2013, 12:02:47 AM »
 Red! That was fantastic man!




-BluBerry
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 12:08:02 AM by BluBerry »

Offline SAJ73

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 598
Re: 109K4's Can't Turn!
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2013, 11:50:15 AM »
Well performed RedBull, and that ending..  :O Wow 
That spit pilot must have been suicidal or something.  :rofl  :aok
TheStig