Lusches AH Stats Megathread

[Brooke]

Who the hell takes a B-26 above 20K?

Anything above 20k in the MA seems extreme to me.

[Lusche]

Those stats are very surprising to me.  I would never have guessed that so many people would go above 20k in bombers.

I fly a lot of strat defense, that's where I killed almost all of the very high altitude bombers. If you fly several sectors into enemy territory, or get near the Me 163 base (which is next to he strats by default on 9 out of 13 maps), flying very high is almost mandatory, if you want to reach your target. In 'tactical' combat, i.e. attacks on bases, bombers tend to fly much lower. But I'm specifically hunting the higher altitude bombers there as well.

Who the hell takes a B-26 above 20K?

That was my though as well  

[bozon]

My impression was that most bombers come at 15-20k, but I usually hit bombers when on base defense, not near the strats.
The stats sure do reflect your gameplay style, because if I was making such a chart there would be 0 kills above 20K because I never bother to chase bombers that high up.

wow, you kill a lot of bombers...

[Patches1]

Those stats are very surprising to me.  I would never have guessed that so many people would go above 20k in bombers.

If I plan to target the enemy strats...I want as much altitude as I can get. :-)

[Lusche]

wow, you kill a lot of bombers...

In the first 9 months of this year, bombers made up ~70% of my air to air kills in fighters.
Since the strats were finally made working, I spend most of my time either attacking or defending them. And even when flying a fighetr 'tactically', I'm mostly prowling the skies for bombers  as well.

The stats sure do reflect your gameplay style, because if I was making such a chart there would be 0 kills above 20K because I never bother to chase bombers that high up.

A B-17 at 10k is just a free kill. A B-17 at 32K is a challenge (unless you are in a Me 163)  

[715]

A B-17 at 10k is just a free kill.

For you, certainly.  Not for everyone.  Most people I watch attacking bomber formations turn into a plummeting fireball while the bomber formation continues on largely intact.

[Karnak]

For you, certainly.  Not for everyone.  Most people I watch attacking bomber formations turn into a plummeting fireball while the bomber formation continues on largely intact.

The stats don't support that.  B-17s, the free bomber with the highest K/D ratio, hold to a pretty consistent 1/3 K/D ratio, basically a single fighter downed for each formation of B-17s shot down.  No other free bomber manages even that.

[Lusche]

Current true air to air K/D for the formation bombers in LWMA:


ooops, forgot the Boston III: 0.09 / 11.6  sorry



Imagine what would happen if 9 out of 10 fighters would not park on the bomber's six o'clock...  

[715]

That's not what I see when I watch single fighters attack level bombers (that bother to shoot back).  Your stats include bombers that took a few hits and then bail later after dropping their bombs, or dive bomb a field and get killed by ack or bomber pilots that don't know they can man their own guns.  Maybe I've just seen the unlucky fighter pilots- I'll continue to keep count. 

Note that even your data shows that with the Ar234, B17, B24, B26B, B29, and Ki-67 that the K/D when counted as pilot is still greater than 1/1 for the bomber pilot vs the fighter pilot, i.e. when a single fighter pilot attacks a single bomber pilot, flying a formation, the bomber pilot has a higher probability of living.

[Tank-Ace]

Anything above 20k in the MA seems extreme to me.

Agreed. Can't hardly have a proper furball at 15k, yet alone 20k or 25K.

I vote we put a wind layer at maximum speed straight down at 15k, so that those acting under false information will be guided towards the fights they unknowingly crave. It would be a service to the community  !

[Scca]

A B-17 at 10k is just a free kill. A B-17 at 32K is a challenge (unless you are in a Me 163) 

Agreed...  I average 3.0 on 17s, Better than that on 26's, 24's, and Lancs.  If you stick to your tactics, bombers ar dead meat. 

For you, certainly.  Not for everyone.  Most people I watch attacking bomber formations turn into a plummeting fireball while the bomber formation continues on largely intact.

[Brooke]

Agreed. Can't hardly have a proper furball at 15k, yet alone 20k or 25K.

I vote we put a wind layer at maximum speed straight down at 15k, so that those acting under false information will be guided towards the fights they unknowingly crave. It would be a service to the community  !

You might be on to something there, but not for the reason you envision.  People climbing to 25k or 30k eventually run out of climb.  A downwind at 15k, however, if properly designed, could supply them with the ability to climb forever.  You could call it the "Air Treadmill."  Then, you just also add the Invincibility Shield, so that no plane can approach to within icon range, and you get it all -- climbing forever, and non-interaction.  Or, you could enable the radio in offline mode, so that players can fly around offline but still see the radio chat as if they were flying a multiplayer game.  The creative juices are flowing here! 

Seriously, just to be clear, I'm not in favor of alt caps in the MA.

I would like to see active area on maps decrease if players in flight decreases, though.  Sometimes, when player numbers drop enough during some times of the day, it becomes hard to find areas of active fighting.  Most players (not all, but most) would have more fun if the action were more concentrated in those circumstances.  Note that this is a spectrum.  What is optimal density?  It depends on preference, so you have to adjust for average preference in setting that.

[Vinkman]

Avergage MA Bomber Altitudes


... is one thing I would like to know, but unfortunately there is no way to find out 

So I kept a log about at which altitudes I was killing level bombers in the MA during the past 30 days. As such it's of course not representative for the whole arena at all, and says at least as much about my own gameplay as it does about the bombers. Nevertheless it might be interesting to some:

(Image removed from quote.)

Shown are air-to-air kill exclusively, ground to air kills are excluded. Top left chart shows allkilled level bombers, followed by charts on the most numerous victims of mine.
It should also be noted that I have encountered a lot more bombers at 30K+ which survived my attacks than at any other altitude range.

I assume this is a new metric and that you don't have historical data. But it does match my experience as well which is that must buffs now are above 20K, with many 25-30K.   This seems like a new phenomena. typically buffs were 15K.  I think the 410 has change buff pilot behavior. the only good defense against a 410 is to get to 30K which is in reality the functional limit of 410 with the 50mm.   The buff pilots have realized they are safe at 30K and dead at 15K so they have, on mass moved to higher alts.

[Lusche]

Yes this is a one of a kind analysis and I have no data to compare with.

I too have killed much more (subjectively) very high altitude bombers in the last year than ever before, but I don't think it's caused the Me 410. First, this trend with me started before the Me 410 arrived and second there are a lot more deadly buff killing planes out there. Spending often more than half of my time in bombers myself, I still see many more other deadly interceptors.

The thing is: The very high altitude (25k+) bombers I see are mostly heading for the strats. Only since August 2012 we have such an working, attractive central target. Yes, the central strats were the before for like 2-3 years, but after an initial 2-3 tours everybody noticed how pointless they were and stopped attacking them. And when we had zone factories, nobody had to fly several sectors through enemy airspace to attack one, which is one of the main reasons for high altitude bombing.

Tactically (attacking bases) I still see them much lower, though I would (subjectively) agree that the number of 20K bombers (and fighters!) has increased here as well. I think one of the reasons could be the removal of the 15k 'haze blanket' ... older players will remember this. This thin layer of haze made many bombers flying just below of it. And in case of fighters, it was a clear line tagging anyone above an "alt monkey"

[Lusche]

Axis vs Allies tank combat in the LW MA


It has often seemed to be a common opinion that in a AvA MA settings, the Axis would dominate the Allied in pure ground combat, tank vs tank... and that's why the M26 is being wished for.
Well, I just checked the Axis vs Allied K/D for true tank vs tank action, for the current year.

Allies win. In the first 9 tours of 2013...

Axis tanks & tank destroyers killed 225,808 Allied tanks & tank destroyers.
Allied tanks & tank destroyers killed 193,568 Axis tanks & tank destroyers.


I admit I didn't expect that.