YO Mountain man

[ToeTag]

Ever seen these...what the heck are they?  They seem to be pure lead......but you never know.  Bought 740 Lbs of it.



...and why are my ingots doing this?  Light purple blue huge with gold color where it hits the cast iron mold.  Thought you might know...anyone else?

Thanks,
TOE

[MarineUS]

Interesting color popping up. 

[Maverick]

Top pics look like lead slabs used as weights, similar to what is used to balance a fork lift or tractor.

Bottom pic, oxidation of the lead coupled with some contamination of the iron melting / casting pot. Did you use any flux at all when melting it? Did you skim before pouring? I used plain old paraffin wax shavings when I was casting bullets for my smoke pole.

[morfiend]

Top pics look like lead slabs used as weights, similar to what is used to balance a fork lift or tractor.

Bottom pic, oxidation of the lead coupled with some contamination of the iron melting / casting pot. Did you use any flux at all when melting it? Did you skim before pouring? I used plain old paraffin wax shavings when I was casting bullets for my smoke pole.

  I was going to say much the same thing although I think they may be out of batteries as they look like the lead plates you find is some of them. Another thing they could have been used for was ballast in a sailboat!

   I was waiting for 1 of the experts to chime in before I said anything.

      It looks like simple impurities in the lead and they rose to the top as they are lighter/less dense than the lead. I'd cut the top layer off and resmelt it,skim the top layer and use a good flux,this will let you remove most of the impurities without having to smelt the whole ingot.


   YMMV.



   
   

[mtnman]

The top stuff looks like flashing to me (the old stuff they used on roofs, etc.).  It's thin sheet (1/16")?  I don't know what the holes are for in the corners though; maybe from a secondary use?

I use a lot of that myself (and like it).  I get it from a friend who rips it off of roofs when he refurbishes them.

I agree with the others here that what you see in the ingot is impurities.  Tin and antimony are commonly mixed with lead.

I just skim them off before I pour, or if I'm lazy I just pour the lead out from under it and knock it out of the ladle as it empties.  It always seems to stick to my ladle anyway (so it doesn't go into the mold).

You don't necessarily need ultra "pure" lead, especially with a smooth bore. 

With a rifle it's more critical, and should definitely be soft (pure) enough to scratch with a thumbnail.  If it isn't pretty pure though, you may not get the accuracy you want because the balls won't all weigh the same (individually, and batch-to-batch).

[ToeTag]

well there seems to be a good ten pager on a Boolit forum. All say is a temperature thing.  As I live in Montana it explains a lot. A hot pot + really cold air. I dialed the temp back and clarity improved.  I do flux with carbon and skim the slag off the top.  Even after smelting and fluxing multiple times it still happens. If it is tin or antimony then that's fine as I am making pistol rounds that will be plated and shot at higher velocities.  But it appears that it is a very pure lead that when the very cold air hits the top of the pot causes the discoloration.  If done in a mostly enclosed (mask worn) area with no draft then they are nice and shiny.  I was also thinking ballast or counter weight except for the white oxidization on a few plates.  If it was a salty boat then could be a small amount of anode going on there....does salt pop under heat I'm not going to taste it  ? Thanks for the input guys.

[mbailey]

 I was going to say much the same thing although I think they may be out of batteries as they look like the lead plates you find is some of them. Another thing they could have been used for was ballast in a sailboat!

   I was waiting for 1 of the experts to chime in before I said anything.

      It looks like simple impurities in the lead and they rose to the top as they are lighter/less dense than the lead. I'd cut the top layer off and resmelt it,skim the top layer and use a good flux,this will let you remove most of the impurities without having to smelt the whole ingot.


   YMMV.

    

Im going to say something battery oriented also. Lead flashing is usually rolled coil stock, or in the form of boot flashing for pipes your plumbing vent pipes up thru the sheathing and slipped under the shingles. Ive been to the local Deka plant here in PA, and have seen something similar  ( that said, it was 20-yrs ago when i was selling coatings) but something about them just screams battery to me.

I think what you guys do is great...Recycling at its finest. Makes me want to run out and start molding (saltwater) sinkers again.  
  

[dunnrite]

First thing I thought of was battery plates, also.  Second pic, yea, what they said  

[mtnman]

well there seems to be a good ten pager on a Boolit forum. All say is a temperature thing.  As I live in Montana it explains a lot. A hot pot + really cold air. I dialed the temp back and clarity improved.  I do flux with carbon and skim the slag off the top.  Even after smelting and fluxing multiple times it still happens. If it is tin or antimony then that's fine as I am making pistol rounds that will be plated and shot at higher velocities.  But it appears that it is a very pure lead that when the very cold air hits the top of the pot causes the discoloration.  If done in a mostly enclosed (mask worn) area with no draft then they are nice and shiny.  I was also thinking ballast or counter weight except for the white oxidization on a few plates.  If it was a salty boat then could be a small amount of anode going on there....does salt pop under heat I'm not going to taste it  ? Thanks for the input guys.

Come to think of it, I've never played with lead in cold temps.  That's a new one for me!

Learn something new all the time...

Thanks!

[mbailey]

Battery plates....schematic

[mtnman]

Battery plates....schematic

(Image removed from quote.)

Never looked inside one, so I wouldn't know.  How thick are the plates?  Would they have holes?

The lead flashing (sheeting) I have is like lead poster-board.  I can roll it, and fold it, and cut it with regular scissors.  It's probably a little less than 1/16" thick.  I sometimes use it to cut lead "leathers" for my flintlocks.

I have some old batteries though, maybe I should pull the lead out. 

I moved last spring, and had several buckets of lead.  Due to work constraints I had to work while my wife did much of the moving.  She was not at all happy about unloading the buckets of lead by hand, putting the empty buckets in the vehicle, and then walking the lead to the vehicle by the handful.  Then, repeating the process in reverse to unload the lead...  I think if I emptied out the batteries to pull the lead she'd kill me if/when we move again!

[Maverick]

Battery plates aren't really solid lead any more for the majority of them. They use "sponge" lead now as it gives greater surface area for the acid to work with. It's LOUSY for bullets. It needs a lot of cleaning and isn't generally worth the effort.

If you are casting for black powder you want as pure a lead as possible because it's soft. If you are casting for cartridge loads you want something with tin in it like linotype or tire weights.

[morfiend]

 Mav,

  I agree the "new" plates are junk!  They dont even make a desent sinker or jighead.

  This is the reason I said "some batteries" as I've seen plates out of older batteries that look very similar to the pix. Sailboat balast are usually thicker but the holes made me think that they could be used to layer the balast to adjust the weight.

 Mntman, I've used plenty of roofing sheeting lead over the years and those plates just look too thick to be used for that purpose.

  BTW,toetag I hope you're using a proper mask even if you're doing the smelting outside!  Lead can and will accumulate in the body and there is no cure! I used to work grinding lead joints on cars,ya back then, we wore complete enviro suits with piped in air,my lead count went up 2 ppm and I asked to be removed from the job and they had no recourse but to move me as there are no safe limits to the amount of lead in the body.

  I'd advise not just a mask but also proper clothing,a cheap hazmat/painters suit,tape the arms and legs,wear a headcovering and completely remove all the clothng before entering your house,this is really important if you have children about!!  You just cant be too careful when working with lead IMHO.


   

[ToeTag]

[quote author=morfiend link=topic=345974.msg4570082#msg4570082 date=1361913673
  I'd advise not just a mask but also proper clothing,a cheap hazmat/painters suit,tape the arms and legs,wear a headcovering and completely remove all the clothng before entering your house,this is really important if you have children about!!  You just cant be too careful when working with lead IMHO.[/quote]

Lead does not vaporize at these temps and the only contamination would be from touching it.. However you have to be careful of what is burning off of the lead.  So yea I shed the shoes and gloves before entering the house.

[morfiend]

 I understand it doesnt vapourize but thats only 1 way to get contamination,just touching lead with bare hands is enough!

   However I'm not here to preach,I trust you know what your doing and as you said you remove your clothes before entering the house and thats a good thing.