Author Topic: F2A-3 Buffalo  (Read 1204 times)

Offline Wmaker

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Re: F2A-3 Buffalo
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2013, 11:48:32 AM »
Probably, you meant 1000hp.

I meant that 339D had 100hp more than B239. Sorry about that.


Other things to consider are that the Brewster was plagued by over heating problems that were exacerbated in hot tropical climates and not as big of an issue in the colder climates the B-239 operated in.

Yep, but this won't come into play in AH in any way.


Basically we have all the ingredients for a perfect bbs shiitestorm, meaning that everyone is correct to some degree.

If everyone would just look at the technical properties that matter in AH when comparing aircraft, a lot of the arguments that are caused from taking anecdotes as gospel wouldn't happen.


I find it hard to believe that even the Finnish version would turn so well with the Zeke, but I don't believe it is over modeled to the degree that some here think.

Well I think this is a good example why people tend to jump into conclusions that can easily be the wrong ones. In this comparison there are still two pilots involved, usually unknown fuel amounts, etc. ...and in the end, if the 'wrong' plane seems to be performing better than the other how do you off ahdn know which one (or both?) is wrong?

A6M2 Zeke in AH weighs ~200lbs more at normal take off weight than the weight given in most sources (including Francillon). Also I'm a bit auspicious of the very nasty departure characteristics compared to many other fighters considering that Zero used airfoil that was basically derived from the NACA airfoils that most WWII fighters used. And when talking about the history/anecdotes, when in the air and with planes working Brits didn't really do all that bad against the Japanese. In the end they were simply fighting an overwhelming odds at the time.

That said, I truly wouldn't mind a 339D for example. I'd really would like to be able to compare the two Brewsters in AH very much. My hunch just tells me that there's a slim change for that to happen. If they were planning multiple variants they most likely wouldn't have accepted skins from other services than Finnish Air Force for the B239.

Who knows, hopefully I'm wrong.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 11:51:38 AM by Wmaker »
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Offline jimson

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Re: F2A-3 Buffalo
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2013, 11:53:03 AM »
I think much does boil down to experience and tactics.

Not being a particularly skilled virtual pilot I really can't address the over modeling contentions. I don't have a problem with the B-239 here, but being that the Battle of Midway, while only one battle, was a very significant one in the Pacific, I'd like to be able to have both of the American fighters that were involved and whether right or wrong, few accept our Brewster to be even close to what the Marines flew there.

I don't expect that many would find it acceptable in an early Burma scenario against KI27 and Ki43 subs either.

The record that all Brewster versions of any nation had against the Japanese in RL is rather dismal, and it's difficult for many to believe that the plane itself was adequate and only failed due to bad piloting.

"While the remarkable Finnish accomplishments in the Buffalo are undeniable, aviation historian Dan Ford points out that Stalin's purges and recent expansion of the Soviet Air Force resulted in many new, inexperienced pilots while simultaneously discouraging combat initiative. The result was pilots who failed to scan the airspace behind them, and also Soviet air formations that held their positions in defensive circles while the diving Finnish pilots picked them off one-by-one. The Soviet fighter aircraft used in the early years on the Finnish front also included some obsolescent models such as the Polikarpov I-15 and I-153. After the end of hostilities, Karhunen, the captain and commander of the 3rd flight of LeLv 24, recalled:"

"The Brewster model 239 was good against the older Russian fighters, Polikarpov I-153 Chaika (Gull) and I-16. Hence the period 1941–42 was the best time for us. In 1943 it was already significantly more difficult when the Russians began to use their newer fighters against us... Later, with the Yaks, Hurricanes, Tomahawks, LaGG-3 and MiGs, it became a fight to the death."
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 12:19:56 PM by jimson »

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: F2A-3 Buffalo
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2013, 12:46:24 PM »


The record that all Brewster versions of any nation had against the Japanese in RL is rather dismal, and it's difficult for many to believe that the plane itself was adequate and only failed due to bad piloting.


Initially, the RAF/Commonwealth forces did okay with the Brewster when the main opponent was the Ki-27 and the Brewster was able to get into a good intercept altitude and position but as Wmaker pointed out, increasing numbers of Japanese planes and newer ones like the Ki-43 making their appearance overwhelmed the RAF/Commonwealth Brewster pilots.  Taking into account other facts like poor training, inexperience in both pilots and ground crew and the myriad of issues with the B-339E itself, just adds more reasons why the Brewster didn't have a "winning" record.

The Dutch had a better time in the Brewster, though not by much.  Because the Dutch flew the B-339Cs and B-339Ds which were lighter than the B-339Es flown by the RAF/Commonwealth forces, it had a better record against the Ki-43 and A6M2 than the B-339E did.  Like with the RAF/Commonwealth forces, attrition played a major role with a large number of the Dutch Brewsters being destroyed on the ground.  The Dutch also used the Brewsters as ground attack planes, which accounts for some of the 30 lost due to being shot down and several accidents due to either mechanical malfunction or pilot inexperience.

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Offline BaDkaRmA158Th

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Re: F2A-3 Buffalo
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2013, 04:01:40 PM »
Black eye in first battle, fighting aircraft that were superior in almost all ways, with pilots who all had more combat time. Landing gear that couldn't function to needed continued carrier operations, no folding wing's to store more. "and no drop tanks? cant remember if early versions of f4f's had Dt's"



It is not hard to see why the navy went with the f4f, to me the folding wings for space alone would be a reason, but if your aircraft cant land with a decent amount of success then how long would it be before the carrier would have to return to port or await more fighers to fly out to replenish those lost simply in carrier landings alone.


Still i would like to see this A/C someday, just like any other.  :rock
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