Windows 8

[MrRiplEy[H]]

wow it is that easy to mess up win 8.



semp

It's as easy to mess up any version of windows. You should try to perk your comments a little, they're not very useful.

[ACE]

Regardless win 8 shouldn't have that problem.  Thats the point. 

[guncrasher]

It's as easy to mess up any version of windows. You should try to perk your comments a little, they're not very useful.

Conclusion: CH Windows 8 support is nonexistant and people who use other hardware have no problems.

semp

[MrRiplEy[H]]

semp

You should really try to understand the issue at hand and refrain from posting untill you do. Repeat: It is not Win8's fault if CH software is not compatible with it. Period.

[guncrasher]

You should really try to understand the issue at hand and refrain from posting untill you do. Repeat: It is not Win8's fault if CH software is not compatible with it. Period.

you ever notice that whenever there's a problem that it is never win8's fault?  at least according to you. the problem is not that software is not compatible with win8 but rather win8 is not compatible with a lot of software.  we could understand if it was some stuff from win 3.1 but damn.

but anyway the conclusion that he came up with is still valid.  why "upgrade" to win8 when it is a hassle rather than stay with win7.  right now if there's a problem with any new drivers the easy solution is to roll back to a previous stable version.  you dont sit around and wait for the drivers to be fixed since you want to use your stuff now.  so why should "rolling back" your os to a previous stable version that worked for you be any different?

we as consumers dont really have any saying in what companies do other than to vote with our wallets.  if a piece of hardware or software doesnt work for you then you dont buy it period.  you cant tell people that it "isnt the software/hardware's fault" and you must buy it and stick with it anyway.  to us it doesnt really matter the why or who is responsible for doing what.  all we care about is if it works and if it has any use for us.

semp

[MrRiplEy[H]]

See Rule #4

[Skuzzy]

Microsoft created a number of compatibility problems they did not bother telling people about.  Whether it is a bug in Windows 8 that created the compatibility problem or a conscious decision to break something is what no one knows, at this time.

No company should be held accountable when they are blind sided in the manner Microsoft has done to many companies.  It is not up to the application/driver to maintain compatibility with an operating system.  If the operating system is going to be changed in such a manner it will not be backward compatible, then it is up to Microsoft to let everyone know.

In forums all over the Internet people claim Windows 7 drivers are compatible with Windows 8.  Microsoft, also claims the same driver SDK can be used to create drivers for Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8.  So when a driver works with Vista and Windows 7 but does not work with Windows 8, then something is amiss.

I have read the SDK documentation and cannot find where a driver for Windows 7 should not work with Windows 8.  It is quite possible to create a driver which would not work with Windows 7, and run on Windows 8, but the documentation suggests the reverse should not be possible.

All that said, Microsoft did rehash the USB driver layer in Windows 8 and they did introduce some issues into it.  They have those documented.  In some cases the problems cannot be worked around to get a device working.  Most of it occurs at device enumeration time.  Whether CH is a victim of this, I cannot say.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Microsoft created a number of compatibility problems they did not bother telling people about.  Whether it is a bug in Windows 8 that created the compatibility problem or a conscious decision to break something is what no one knows, at this time.

No company should be held accountable when they are blind sided in the manner Microsoft has done to many companies.  It is not up to the application/driver to maintain compatibility with an operating system.  If the operating system is going to be changed in such a manner it will not be backward compatible, then it is up to Microsoft to let everyone know.

In forums all over the Internet people claim Windows 7 drivers are compatible with Windows 8.  Microsoft, also claims the same driver SDK can be used to create drivers for Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8.  So when a driver works with Vista and Windows 7 but does not work with Windows 8, then something is amiss.

I have read the SDK documentation and cannot find where a driver for Windows 7 should not work with Windows 8.  It is quite possible to create a driver which would not work with Windows 7, and run on Windows 8, but the documentation suggests the reverse should not be possible.

All that said, Microsoft did rehash the USB driver layer in Windows 8 and they did introduce some issues into it.  They have those documented.  In some cases the problems cannot be worked around to get a device working.  Most of it occurs at device enumeration time.  Whether CH is a victim of this, I cannot say.

LOL Skuzzy are you joking? All the developers had multiple months to test their applications and drivers on Win8 before its official release. Nobody was blindsided. If compatibility problems came as a surprise it's because application / driver makers weren't doing their compatibility testing as they should. The first thing I did was run Win8 earlyest release version and test it against our software. We hit zero problems.

[Bizman]

LOL Skuzzy are you joking? All the developers had multiple months to test their applications and drivers on Win8 before its official release. Nobody was blindsided. If compatibility problems came as a surprise it's because application / driver makers weren't doing their compatibility testing as they should. The first thing I did was run Win8 earlyest release version and test it against our software. We hit zero problems.

Compatibility testing and any freshly released Microsoft OS in the same chapter is hilarious! I have always been in the belief that the final compatibility testing is made by the end users. No company can afford the time and computers to cover every possible compilation of hardware, ever. Beta testing is being used to minimize issues, but even that doesn't cover every possibility. Not to mention hardware that hasn't been released yet.

As you've sometimes mentioned, you or someone else has installed Win8 into an older PC without problems. That doesn't mean it would be equally compatible with any rig of the same age or newer, not to mention the affects of adding any kind of a card. Even with current hardware the variables are too numerous to cover. How would the <special technology> of a <brand A> mobo mix with the <enhanced gizmo> of a <brand B> video card? Does adding <brandC> <ultimate> RAM interfere with either of the two? A gazillion possible variations of the theme, who will do the compatibility testing? Right. The end user.
 

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Compatibility testing and any freshly released Microsoft OS in the same chapter is hilarious! I have always been in the belief that the final compatibility testing is made by the end users. No company can afford the time and computers to cover every possible compilation of hardware, ever. Beta testing is being used to minimize issues, but even that doesn't cover every possibility. Not to mention hardware that hasn't been released yet.

As you've sometimes mentioned, you or someone else has installed Win8 into an older PC without problems. That doesn't mean it would be equally compatible with any rig of the same age or newer, not to mention the affects of adding any kind of a card. Even with current hardware the variables are too numerous to cover. How would the <special technology> of a <brand A> mobo mix with the <enhanced gizmo> of a <brand B> video card? Does adding <brandC> <ultimate> RAM interfere with either of the two? A gazillion possible variations of the theme, who will do the compatibility testing? Right. The end user.
 

There is no need to test most softwares for hardware combinations, especially when the alternating factor in this case is the OS libraries. As long as the product works with the new OS in basic configuration it's as likely to work in it as it was in the older OS version (the variations with hardware are the same).

Things get tricky when people install all sorts of AVs etc. on the machines which make the end result very unpredictable as they hijack processes and whatnot. But basic compatibility against OS versions can and should be checked. Apparently CH failed to do that.

- Or this is a case of a typical loud, singular disappointed end user whose problems may relate to 3rd party software installations instead of actual problems with CH and Win8. Haven't yet heard any other CH+Win8 users chime in on the whine.

[Skuzzy]

LOL Skuzzy are you joking? All the developers had multiple months to test their applications and drivers on Win8 before its official release. Nobody was blindsided. If compatibility problems came as a surprise it's because application / driver makers weren't doing their compatibility testing as they should. The first thing I did was run Win8 earlyest release version and test it against our software. We hit zero problems.

The compatibility problems introduced in Windows 8 were NOT discovered until Microsoft shipped it.

No,  I am not joking.  I actually spent the time following the driver SDK through all its stages.  Initially, Microsoft insisted that Windows 7 and Vista drivers were 100% compatible with Windows 8.  It was not until approximately 3 months after Windows 8 shipped did they discover the problems with the USB driver API.  It is a bug in Windows 8.

Does it impact CH?  I have no idea.  It seems to be very random in what hardware is impacted, but the manifestation is the same.  The hardware fails to initialize when the bug is hit.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

The compatibility problems introduced in Windows 8 were NOT discovered until Microsoft shipped it.

No,  I am not joking.  I actually spent the time following the driver SDK through all its stages.  Initially, Microsoft insisted that Windows 7 and Vista drivers were 100% compatible with Windows 8.  It was not until approximately 3 months after Windows 8 shipped did they discover the problems with the USB driver API.  It is a bug in Windows 8.

Does it impact CH?  I have no idea.  It seems to be very random in what hardware is impacted, but the manifestation is the same.  The hardware fails to initialize when the bug is hit.

So are you saying the bug appeared after Windows8 had spent close to a year in open beta and before that in closed beta? Was the problem due to a change made at release time?

[Skuzzy]

So are you saying the bug appeared after Windows8 had spent close to a year in open beta and before that in closed beta? Was the problem due to a change made at release time?

Microsoft made a change to the USB API early on.  Presumably (they never really said, which is normal for them), it was to correct the problem that surfaced with Windows 7 64 bit concerning the low power condition, on the USB bus, which caused a flood of DEVICE_CHANGE_NOTIFICATION messages to be sent to any application listening for those messages.  Usually crashing the application in the process.

That problem no longer seems to exist, which is why I am speculating that is what the change was for.  It very well could be there are low power USB buses that are sensitive to the change and the power levels are low enough that Windows 8 is simply never getting any notifications at all.  Again, that is speculation on my part, but it does fit with the logic that might have been applied.

As to why it took so long for it to show up, I could only speculate.  Microsoft never said it changed anything, after its initial change, but then suddenly the problems appeared.  Sufficient enough they put in warnings about it in the driver SDK.  No fix has been forthcoming yet.  I can only assume they have not come to terms with a solution.

[Hajo]

After unplugging my ch equipment I uninstalled Control Manager.  When rebooting my PC In control panel listed as my game controllers were the ch usb fighterstick, throttle and pro pedals.

I could not get them to respond at all in windows8 even though they were recognized.  I then did trouble shooting and had windows look at the USB drivers and search for a better driver.

Windows told me the drivers were fine on each controller and I did not need a different driver.  According to windows8 my gear is working fine.  <shrugz>  I give up.

After my mouse Icon disappeared on start up (usb mouse) I'm at a loss.  Called ASUS about the problem....their answer....do a system restore.  That didn't help either.

I have no idea at this point that even in ch had a windows8 driver....would it work?  USB is fudged.  I'd happily backup to windowsXP but due to the fact it probably wouldn't recognize

the MB chipset drivers or video since ASUS didn't provide a MB chipset driver...I'm pooched.  I do have a video driver disk....nothing about windows8.  Wonder if XP could handle the

vid cards?

[MrRiplEy[H]]

After unplugging my ch equipment I uninstalled Control Manager.  When rebooting my PC In control panel listed as my game controllers were the ch usb fighterstick, throttle and pro pedals.

I could not get them to respond at all in windows8 even though they were recognized.  I then did trouble shooting and had windows look at the USB drivers and search for a better driver.

Windows told me the drivers were fine on each controller and I did not need a different driver.  According to windows8 my gear is working fine.  <shrugz>  I give up.

After my mouse Icon disappeared on start up (usb mouse) I'm at a loss.  Called ASUS about the problem....their answer....do a system restore.  That didn't help either.

I have no idea at this point that even in ch had a windows8 driver....would it work?  USB is fudged.  I'd happily backup to windowsXP but due to the fact it probably wouldn't recognize

the MB chipset drivers or video since ASUS didn't provide a MB chipset driver...I'm pooched.  I do have a video driver disk....nothing about windows8.  Wonder if XP could handle the

vid cards?

Why XP? It's no longer supported. Switch to Win7.