Ground Attack Plane P38L or P47D-40?

[SilverZ06]

I attack the ground with a P38 and so far the ground has won every single time.   

[Zoney]

I think the P47 is much better at ground attacks.  I plan on upping a P38 tonight and flying it really crappy to prove I am correct.  I think I will hunt Wiley.

[bj229r]

Only problem with D40.....unless he's in a whord, he's dead meat after dropping down to <5k to drop ords.......even more likely if he makes 2-3 passes. It's slower then the spixteen and Lgays which are capping the field.....and it's unlikely the D40 will fight it's way out of it (be patient, use wep judiciously, fly the N)

[Ninthmessiah]

Only problem with D40.....unless he's in a whord, he's dead meat after dropping down to <5k to drop ords.......even more likely if he makes 2-3 passes. It's slower then the spixteen and Lgays which are capping the field.....and it's unlikely the D40 will fight it's way out of it (be patient, use wep judiciously, fly the N)

A clean p38 is still slower than a clean D40.  After ords are released, D40 is the clear winner if trying to get away is your only concern. 

I take issue with the rest of your post because it presumes that a D40 will get low n slow over an enemy field, while the p38 will not, for no other reason than it's a p38. 

Oh, and before I forget, N > D40.

[Randy1]

In my tests any twin engined fighter-bomber will handle its ordnance substantially better than a single engined fighter.  It is most noticeable in climb, but even speed on the deck shows it.

A special thanks to Karnak for all the data.

I say you can't have a thread like this and not mention the Mossi! 

Not a lot more scary than to realize your in a HO with a Mossi.  You don't win those.

Yes.  The p38 has more redundant parts, but they get shot off.  Spend some time in the ack and your garuanteed a radiator hit.  For survivability, the p47.  It's immune to radiator hits and has enough oil to rtb with time to spare.  Could probably knock out a few guns before you have to head home.  Also, p47 less prone to compression so you can come in steep and fast, another factor that adds to its survivability. 

Otherwise, a heavy p38 out performs a heavy jug in both climb and speed

Another thing, if you don't drop both wing ords at the same in a p47, it gets really unstable.  Not so much in a p38.

One advantage to the P38 I had forgotten is no oil on the windshield.

Minor sidebar- While it's absolutely critical in the 38, that is equally useful in all aircraft.  Doing it all the time is a good habit to get into, no matter what you're flying.

Wiley.

Wiley, I get so tied up in the fight I forget about the smart things to do.

[Babalonian]

Yes.  The p38 has more redundant parts, but they get shot off.  Spend some time in the ack and your garuanteed a radiator hit.  For survivability, the p47.  It's immune to radiator hits and has enough oil to rtb with time to spare.  Could probably knock out a few guns before you have to head home.  Also, p47 less prone to compression so you can come in steep and fast, another factor that adds to its survivability. 

Otherwise, a heavy p38 out performs a heavy jug in both climb and speed

Another thing, if you don't drop both wing ords at the same in a p47, it gets really unstable.  Not so much in a p38.

NOW YOU SAY SOMETHING ABOUT IT!     

[Debrody]

The P38 performs better on paper, but i never could get used to that bird. Liked the jug's handling characteristics much better, even though the synthetic performance might have been weaker.

I just couldnt live withouth the torque effects.

[Hajo]

The P47 was voted the best fighter bomber of all time.

It could carry more ord then the 38 or the 51.
An extra 500 lbs. bomb would prohibit climb dontcha think? LOL

The 38 should climb faster...it has a 66 foot wing span fer crissakes.

The P47 would sustain more battle damage and still make it home.  That fact is undisputed.

After completing escort a group of P47s decided to strafe the airbase at Lille.  This group from the 56th
dove down and started the strafe run.  It was a trap.  Here are the facts.
The 56th rolled in on Lille, flak batteries were waiting.  The flight was led by
61st FS CO and 11.5 kill Ace
Jim Stewart.  The date April 1 1944.  Thomas Owens of the 61st sustained hits from the flak and took hit in the fuel tanks.
The CO (stewart) yelled for Owens to bail.  His 47 rolled and went in with Owens in it.  While screaming for Owens to bail
Stewart flew in to a telegraph pole.  To the amazement of the rest of the 61st FS the telegraph pole came out of the collision
in far worse shape then the Thunderbolt.  Part of that telegraph pole made it back home to Halesworth.
The 47 had also the advantage of having an air cooled engine.  They took Pilots home with 2 or 3 cylinders shot off.
Anything water cooled was at a distinct disadvantage.  Also....the D40 was faster then the P38.  It's zoom from a higher speed dive
got it up and out in a hurry.  Yes the 38 had two engines...but they were Allisons that were replaced in other aircraft with Merlins
because of their less then sterling single engine performance.  Just the facts M'am  

Just so ya know.  The 56th FG had 42 Aces in the ETO.  They flew only P47s.  I don't recall any other FG in the 8th, in the ETO, with that many
in any type of aircraft.

[Mongoose]

I attack the ground with a P38 and so far the ground has won every single time.   

   

   I tend to attack the ground a lot. 

[bj229r]

A clean p38 is still slower than a clean D40.  After ords are released, D40 is the clear winner if trying to get away is your only concern. 

I take issue with the rest of your post because it presumes that a D40 will get low n slow over an enemy field, while the p38 will not, for no other reason than it's a p38. 

Oh, and before I forget, N > D40.

if the D40 wants to do more than drop 3k of ord on a hangar and scoot, it will get progressively slower after each pass. My only point about the 38 is it is far able to defend itself down low than the D40 (both of whom would, in the non-whorde scenario, HAVE to fight sooner or later)

[TOMCAT21]

Doesnt the 47 pull out of a dive better than a 38 ? Maybe its my crappy pilot skills but I tend to lock the controls up on a 38 more readily than 47.

[Randy1]

Coming out the backside of the attack in tact, a high percentage of the time, with minimal damage, is what I am looking for here.

 The 47 does offer the highest speed exit if you had the E going in for the ground attack and that counts on survivability.  Not a lot can catch you in the 500 MPH range after a dive.  The 38L though has a limited exit speed that is in the reach of more planes with good E if they want to chase you down.   This is even more true if you loose an engine on the way out.  

Doesnt the 47 pull out of a dive better than a 38 ? Maybe its my crappy pilot skills but I tend to lock the controls up on a 38 more readily than 47.

Tomcat, you get use to keeping a good eye on the speed as you go in.  If a steep dive then it is zero throttle and try not starting at more than 8k above the ground.

The downside for me on the P47 is I can't hit anything with the eight 50s but man you got to love all those bullets.  

Best I can tell from the replies there is no clear winner albeit the discussions were excellent.

Thanks again for the input.

[Wiley]

Coming out the backside of the attack in tact, a high percentage of the time, with minimal damage, is what I am looking for here.

If you're just trying to drop and scoot, the P47 is the better choice.  You can dive faster which means you have more E to work with at the bottom of your dive.

My anecdotal experience is slightly different when jaboing a carrier group though.  I can't remember the last time I survived the puffy when attacking in a P47.  Something critical always gets knocked out.  With the 38, I usually can make my run and get out with the plane in a controllable state unless a good 5 inch gunner happens to be on the boat.

YMMV of course.

Wiley.

[Lab Rat 3947]

The 38 should climb faster...it has a 66 foot wing span

52 feet   

LtngRydr

[bozon]

P-47 is the more survivable dive bomber. If all you want is to release the bombs on target and get out of there alive, this is your plane, especially the N.
P-38 will reach the target faster and is better when operating at low altitudes where you do not dive and reach terminal speeds.

I say you can't have a thread like this and not mention the Mossi!    No, it doesn't carry the same weight as either the P38L or P47D25/-40/-N, but the ability to carry 4/500 lbs bombs and have the quad 20mm's is not to be underestimated.  Oh, and not to mention the speed factor as well.  The biggest downfall in comparing the three planes is that the Mossi needs supporting fighters more so because it is limited in the fighter role.

I beg to differ. Under 15k I fear very few planes when in the Moss VI. At these alts I consider it a better fighter than the P47 and better the lower the fight gets. Heavily dependent on the WEP though. If I lose a fight it is because the other pilot outflew me, or I simply screwed up.

Mossie VI is not a good dive bomber by any standard. The 4*500 is an OK load, but not impressive by any means. It accelerates too fast in a dive and difficult to slow down and if the hand on the speed gauge gets to 480 while you are still pointing 30 deg or more below the horizon, you are dead.