Author Topic: The Plot Thickens: AAF Rocket Ladder or AAF Rocket Ladder?  (Read 1305 times)

Offline bustr

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In my first installment of AAF rockets aiming aids in AAF gunsights, I admitted that the L3 modified gunsight for the P38L to aim rockets was from pilot recollections. And that the description of the rocket aiming aid in the K14A for the P47D and P51D was directly from the AAF manual for the K14A.

I found a photo of the rocket aiming reticle for the modified Lynn L3 gunsight placed specifically in the P38L under a contract to modify them for rocket aiming. And I'm astounded by how much different it is from the pilot recollections. The Lynn L3 was a low profile gunsight specifically for the P38 starting with the P38J to fit into the space under the armored windscreen.

The Lynn L3 was created by the Lynn Instrument Company. It was an improvement on the earlier N-3 and it's 35Mil ring. The L3 had a 50Mil ring. When the P38L was introduced with the rocket trees, a sighting aid was needed for aiming the new 5 inch HVAR rockets. The Na Mac Products Corp. was contracted to convert L3 gunsights to a new reticle with a rocket aiming aid in it.

Here the plot gets really thick. The L3, Mk8, and N9 all have the ability to project 101Mil diameter rings. In 1943 the AAF Material Command contracted for 5400 Mk8 gunsights to place in P47 until the N9 was available. The AAF Material Command contracted for the Lynn L3 to mount in P38J onward. The AAF Proving Ground sub contracted Na Mac Products Corp. in 1944 to change the L3 reticle for the P38L to aim 5 inch HVAR rockets.

The AAF Material Command contracted the Mk8 with two reticle. Both N9 101Mil ring pattern. One for air to air fighting and one with rocket and bombing aids. Na Mac Products Corp. was refitting the L3 with the N9 rocket\bombing reticle. So the question of AAF or AAF? I don't know the answer if the N9 reticle with the aiming aid was used in the N9. There were two versions of the N9. One with a fixed reflector head and one with a tilt able reflector head to aid with rockets and bombs. It was found that pilots locked the tilt able N9 head version at zero and aimed bombs and rockets by eye.

Here is a page from the Mk8 manual showing the two N9 reticle patterns used by the AAF P47's.

 

Below are images of my N9 patterns. The "V" works from 45-70 degrees or in a shallow dive 300+- IA in the P38L and P47D-11\25. The two marks below that are conventional glide bombing from a shallow angle at speed. Practice offline to get the feel. It works as designed by the AAF in 1943.

AAF L3\Mk8\N9 rocket and bombing aid reticle.



AAF Mk8\N9 Air to Air reticle.




You can download these from the link below. Remember to include the (mil) file with the (bmp) file when you copy thes to your sights directory or the gunsight will display too small to be usable.

If you get an ideiot flash player popup click on the upper right hand red "X" button to close it out. It will popup a new window for an Adobe download. Kill the window and you will be back to the download.

Down Load Here ===>> http://www40.zippyshare.com/v/93433061/file.html
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: The Plot Thickens: AAF Rocket Ladder or AAF Rocket Ladder?
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2013, 07:59:18 PM »
Thanks bustr, going to replace the old one you made with this new one.

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Offline Karnak

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Re: The Plot Thickens: AAF Rocket Ladder or AAF Rocket Ladder?
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2013, 08:06:22 PM »
I know it isn't historical, but I wonder if that would work for the Mossie's rockets.
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Offline mechanic

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Re: The Plot Thickens: AAF Rocket Ladder or AAF Rocket Ladder?
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2013, 08:22:42 PM »
They look good, thanks Bustr.
How come the A2A sight is upside down in comparison to the documentation you poted?
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Offline Lab Rat 3947

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Re: The Plot Thickens: AAF Rocket Ladder or AAF Rocket Ladder?
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2013, 08:32:43 PM »
Thanks Bustr  :aok
I'll be installing this right now.


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Offline bustr

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Re: The Plot Thickens: AAF Rocket Ladder or AAF Rocket Ladder?
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2013, 08:46:12 PM »
The N9 air to air as mounted in the N9 bounces off two mirrors. The lamp projects at you from the back of the housing body to a mirror under the big round bumper you see in the P51B cockpit. It reflects back down to the bottom of the gunsight then up into the reflector plate.

In the Mk8 the lamp projects straight up through the body to the reflector plate. So both illustrations are right and wrong. I think illustrations were borrowed to cut down on production time for the AAF Mk8 manual since the reticles were being used across several gunsights.

Karnak it will probably work.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline bustr

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Re: The Plot Thickens: AAF Rocket Ladder or AAF Rocket Ladder?
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2013, 01:15:31 AM »
The L3 with rocket aid was a holy grail for me since 2009. I'm going to adjust the Historic Pack and the readme then release it again. I've subsequently found another Mk8 NAVY gunsight to update into the USA NAVY folder in the pack. It seems the Mk8 had a few reticles for specific air combat jobs. The one I recently found might be the night fighter reticle.

I've been keeping an eye for anything with the Revi for 190 f\G added as rocket aids or bomb aids. I remember reading a german manual and they relied on speed and AoA tables. The stuka had a Stuvi gunsight which was set so you dove at a given AoA and at a certain speed a marker on the gunsight tail moved into place. Then you hit the bomb release when the marker was on target. Hitech I suspect in his choice to not allow an active K14 gyro LC gunsight won't allow an active Stuvi dive comp gunsight.
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This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline bozon

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Re: The Plot Thickens: AAF Rocket Ladder or AAF Rocket Ladder?
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2013, 01:49:55 AM »
I know it isn't historical, but I wonder if that would work for the Mossie's rockets.
Somehow, I do not have great success with the british 60lb rockets. With the F6F I can snipe with the rockets from a great distance but with the mossie I can't seem to hit a thing, unless it is the size of a bomber hangar. It feels like the flight trajectory is very different, but I am not sure if this is not an illusion. Also, the rockets do not converge, so the hit left/right depending on which wing they were released from. Perhaps the longer off-axis mounting of the rockets in the mossie makes this issue more significant. Knowing from which wing the next rocket will be fired makes a big difference when trying to hit a GV.
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Offline BluBerry

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Re: The Plot Thickens: AAF Rocket Ladder or AAF Rocket Ladder?
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2013, 02:33:05 AM »
Nice work bustr  :salute

Offline Randy1

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Re: The Plot Thickens: AAF Rocket Ladder or AAF Rocket Ladder?
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2013, 05:42:27 AM »
Will give it a go for sure.  Thanks a bunch for all your digging.

Offline aztec

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Re: The Plot Thickens: AAF Rocket Ladder or AAF Rocket Ladder?
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2013, 12:38:32 PM »
Thx bustr, great stuff! :salute