Author Topic: My little delay problem  (Read 1864 times)

Offline RedBull1

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Re: My little delay problem
« Reply #45 on: June 01, 2013, 09:23:40 PM »
 :banana:
"There is absolutely no point discussing anything on the BBS, it's mostly populated by people who are right about everything, no one listens and everyone is just talking. People will argue over the shape of an egg." -Anonymous

Offline Gman

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Re: My little delay problem
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2013, 09:32:00 PM »
I fly at really late hours in North American a lot of the time, hours when the guys from Japan are on, and I can instantly tell when I've been shot by one of them by the position their plane is in, which typically wouldn't be a threat for someone with a ping of 100 or less.  High ping/long distance from the server, it does make difference IMO, but mainly on the defense.  My ping is usually between 50 and 60 now, but was 110 with my old ISP, and gunnery stats made a huge jump with the new ISP, while my skills certainly didn't after 14 years of pretty much the same result, so it does have an effect on gunnery as well, at least it did for me dropping my ping by a factor of 2. 

Offline FLS

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Re: My little delay problem
« Reply #47 on: June 01, 2013, 10:58:37 PM »


I don't know if it's worth rehashing again, but since you asked, your answer isn't clear to me. :confused:


It's simple. The player behind you benefits from the slower ping, regardless of who has the slower ping. In your example Redbull is behind you with a slower ping and he benefits. If you get behind him then you benefit from his slower ping and he sees you making "impossible" shots.

In other words, the offensive fighter gets the advantage of the lag and lag is only a disadvantage to the defensive fighter because he can't trust what he sees. The bandit behind you has a better shot angle that he appears to have.

That's what we mean when we say "objects in the rear view mirror are closer than they appear". The solution is to allow for it.

Offline Midway

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Re: My little delay problem
« Reply #48 on: June 01, 2013, 11:04:30 PM »
:banana:

Yeah, you know what I'm talking about.  Care to add anything? :huh


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Offline RedBull1

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Re: My little delay problem
« Reply #49 on: June 01, 2013, 11:29:20 PM »
Yes
















































































































































:banana:
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 11:36:45 PM by RedBull1 »
"There is absolutely no point discussing anything on the BBS, it's mostly populated by people who are right about everything, no one listens and everyone is just talking. People will argue over the shape of an egg." -Anonymous

Offline Midway

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Re: My little delay problem
« Reply #50 on: June 01, 2013, 11:39:48 PM »
It's simple. The player behind you benefits from the slower ping, regardless of who has the slower ping. In your example Redbull is behind you with a slower ping and he benefits. If you get behind him then you benefit from his slower ping and he sees you making "impossible" shots.

In other words, the offensive fighter gets the advantage of the lag and lag is only a disadvantage to the defensive fighter because he can't trust what he sees. The bandit behind you has a better shot angle that he appears to have.

That's what we mean when we say "objects in the rear view mirror are closer than they appear". The solution is to allow for it.

He was actually coming at me somewhat head to head although his nose pointed off to an angle where he could not get guns on me.  I moved in a way to be below and to the right of him to be sure he couldn't.  We were very slow dog fighting and had already merged a few times.  He shot me when he was next to me as we passed, never having guns on me at any time earlier and way past any point of possibly hitting me.  

I don't have the film or pics any more, but based on my careful and multiple times reviewing this film and screenshots all of which I posted, I became convinced that the longer ping pilot has a material advantage.  I really didn't like fighting him after that, and explained why, as he had benefited from this apparent advantage multiple times before I realized what was happening.

Eventually we did fight when Netflix wasn't running and all seemed normal again.  At no time did he warp.  He was just materially lagged and it was very noticeable and obviously, to me, advantageous to him.  At least that's what I concluded at the time.  Maybe I'm wrong though since I don't yet understand it.

How would your explanation go with the above head to head type of position and shot?  We never had guns on each other, based on my point of view and my film, yet he got me.  So apparently, on his PC, he saw a position I never came close to seeing.

Since neither one of us was behind the other, it seems his higher ping won out over my lower one, by creating a view only he saw.

I created a thread about all this at the time, but never got a clear explanation other than what my pictures and film so obviously showed.. that he had no shot, yet shot me down due to his longer ping/lag :frown:.

The way it felt to me is he could tell what I was doing before I could see what he was doing... and he therefore had shots I never saw, but felt the effects of, unfortunately.

PS: This is not to pick on Redbull, as he is just one example of what I have also seen, on occasion, with other pilots that seem to have a greater ping/lag.

I would just like to understand it better instead of guessing or going based on what I think I saw... but as I said earlier maybe I should just drop it since there is nothing I can do about it.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 12:10:04 AM by Midway »


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Offline tuton25

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Re: My little delay problem
« Reply #51 on: June 01, 2013, 11:43:00 PM »

You don't HAVE a delay worth worrying about. Your problem is going for the HO. Learn to attack a plane from an angle where they have a hard time getting guns on you and you will find that it is much easier to get kills WITHOUT dieing at the same time.

I had made several BnZ attacks on the N1k but he kept dodging my shots....
On one pass he reversed and was going to, no matter what I did, get a firing solution on me so I decieded to shoot back.....
><))))*> Da Fish is in Da Fight

Offline Midway

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Re: My little delay problem
« Reply #52 on: June 01, 2013, 11:46:21 PM »


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Offline RedBull1

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Re: My little delay problem
« Reply #53 on: June 01, 2013, 11:50:28 PM »
Looking for another cookie? :)
Yes :banana:
"There is absolutely no point discussing anything on the BBS, it's mostly populated by people who are right about everything, no one listens and everyone is just talking. People will argue over the shape of an egg." -Anonymous

Offline FLS

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Re: My little delay problem
« Reply #54 on: June 02, 2013, 12:08:41 AM »
He was actually coming at me somewhat head to head although his nose pointed off to an angle where he could not get guns on me.  I moved in a way to be below and to the right of him to be sure he couldn't.  We were very slow dog fighting and had already merged a few times.  He shot me, never having guns on me at any time earlier, when he was next to me, and way past any point of possibly hitting me.  

I don't have the film or pics any more, but based on my careful and multiple times reviewing this film I became convinced that the longer ping pilot has a material advantage.  I really didn't like fighting him after that, and explained why, as he had benefited from this apparent advantage multiple times before I realized what was happening.

Eventually we did fight when Netflix wasn't running and all seemed normal again.  At no time did he warp.  He was just materially lagged and it was very noticeable and obviously, to me, advantageous to him.  At least that's what I concluded at the time.  Maybe I'm wrong though since I don't yet understand it.

How would your explanation go with the above head to head type of position and shot?  We never had guns on each other, based on my point of view and my film, yet he got me.  So apparently, on his PC, he saw a position I never came close to seeing.

Since neither one of us was behind the other, it seems his higher ping won out over my lower one, by creating a view only he saw.

I created a thread about all this at the time, but never got a clear explanation other than what my pictures and film so obviously showed.. that he had no shot, yet shot me down due to his longer ping/lag :frown:.

The way it felt to me is he could tell what I was doing before I could see what he was doing... and he therefore had shots I never saw, but felt the effects of, unfortunately.

PS: This is not to pick on Redbull, as he is just one example of what I have also seen, on occasion, with other pilots that seem to have a greater ping/lag.

I would just like to understand it better instead of guessing or going based on what I think I saw... but as I said earlier maybe I should just drop it since there is nothing I can do about it.

So you're saying the offensive fighter had the advantage and you felt at a disadvantage while flying defensively.

Offline Midway

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Re: My little delay problem
« Reply #55 on: June 02, 2013, 12:24:32 AM »
So you're saying the offensive fighter had the advantage and you felt at a disadvantage while flying defensively.

Neither one of us had an advantage. We were passing each other, but I do see your point that he was reaching for a HO type shot (offensive) and I was purposefully moving to gain an angle on him while avoiding his HO shot (offensive and defensive).  The point though is he never had guns on me, yet shot me with a front quarter shot which I never saw and my film did not show as possible... and he had the longer ping due to Netflix running.  

Seems that the longer ping created an advantage for him since I was blind to a position only he saw allowing him a shot.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 12:35:40 AM by Midway »


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Offline Midway

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Re: My little delay problem
« Reply #56 on: June 02, 2013, 12:57:07 AM »


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Offline RedBull1

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Re: My little delay problem
« Reply #57 on: June 02, 2013, 01:24:56 AM »
Ok, but just one for now.. The rest you can have with the family on movie night.

(Image removed from quote.)

http://www.suzdaily.com/2012/04/how-to-make-a-vintage-toy-airplane-cookie.html


I......don't see a K4 :(
"There is absolutely no point discussing anything on the BBS, it's mostly populated by people who are right about everything, no one listens and everyone is just talking. People will argue over the shape of an egg." -Anonymous

Offline Midway

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Re: My little delay problem
« Reply #58 on: June 02, 2013, 07:41:31 AM »
I......don't see a K4 :(

They don't usually last very long, do they? :D


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Offline FLS

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Re: My little delay problem
« Reply #59 on: June 02, 2013, 10:54:32 AM »

Neither one of us had an advantage...

Seems that the longer ping created an advantage for him...


So again you're saying he had an advantage attacking you and now you're also saying nobody had an advantage.

Player aircraft are not in the same positions on different PC's. Just like you see in the collision animation. It's not a one way advantage. It affects all players the same way. You both get the same advantage regardless of your ping.