Author Topic: Bad Crash Dayton Airshow  (Read 3439 times)

Offline maxy

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Re: Bad Crash Dayton Airshow
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2013, 05:37:55 PM »
so sad to watch , and thank you Puma for the explanation i trust your knowledge sir

Offline Sol75

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Re: Bad Crash Dayton Airshow
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2013, 05:42:42 PM »
Are you trying argue just for the sake of arguing?  The impact is obvious.  There is sound and yes there is sometimes lag of sound at air shows.  Where you standing at the same relative position of the video recorder or at a different angle?

Absolutely not trying to jsut argue.  Just giving a viewpoint from someone who was present.  It was definitely a stall, and impact, however, at my seat, int he Chalet area, I did NOT hear the impact itself, only the engine noise continuing post-impact, therefore it would be impossible for me to say when the engine cut out, if it did.  Againa s my psot said, this is pure speculation on my part based on what I saw, and heard.  Keep in mind, that especially in a radial engine, an engine malfunction does not necessarily mean an instant engine out, it could have continued running, at reduced power output, which could contribute.  It also could be a case of the pilot simply got too slow, or failed to take into account density altitude. (it was 90 deg today)... all we have now is speculation, and thats all I am doing right now, however, I think we can agree it appears to almsot certainly been an inverted stall. no matter what, if any, contributing factors there were.
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Offline Tupac

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Re: Bad Crash Dayton Airshow
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2013, 06:21:07 PM »
Least they went out doing what they love

I hate that saying. Hate hate hate it. She died terrified with her arms covering her face probably thinking about what her family will do now.

I had the honor of meeting Jane at SnF last year - you would not meet a nicer or more caring person. General aviation and the airshow community suffered a great loss today.
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Offline helbent

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Re: Bad Crash Dayton Airshow
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2013, 06:40:40 PM »
Very upsetting to watch.

It is also sad that some of our community gets together to have a good time in person, then something terrible happens that most likely has a negative impact on what should be a happy time.

Unlikely, but...   I actually hope the majority did not witness this accident.

Prayers to the families.
 
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Offline Zacherof

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Re: Bad Crash Dayton Airshow
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2013, 06:42:14 PM »
I hate that saying. Hate hate hate it. She died terrified with her arms covering her face probably thinking about what her family will do now.

I had the honor of meeting Jane at SnF last year - you would not meet a nicer or more caring person. General aviation and the airshow community suffered a great loss today.
tis a terrible saying

but if I were to die racing a bike, or cliff diving and
jumpnig, that's how I'd like to be remembered
going out doing what I love to do.

No disrespect was intended. I've seen enough terrble deaths drawn out in person to want this.  
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Offline 5PointOh

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Re: Bad Crash Dayton Airshow
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2013, 06:47:09 PM »
Such a tragedy, for those concerned about AH family in the area, I know at least 10-12 of us were at a different airstrip and did not witness the accident. 
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Offline Tupac

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Re: Bad Crash Dayton Airshow
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2013, 06:51:42 PM »
tis a terrible saying

but if I were to die racing a bike, or cliff diving and
jumpnig, that's how I'd like to be remembered
going out doing what I love to do.

No disrespect was intended. I've seen enough terrble deaths drawn out in person to want this.  

I would want the same - we have lost 3 great wing walkers in the same amount of years. This death was far more desirable than the others.
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Offline eagl

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Re: Bad Crash Dayton Airshow
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2013, 12:08:07 AM »
Looked to me that as he rolled he tagged zero G for a second, and the engine coughed right before the plane was stabilized inverted.  It was still descending, never quite leveled off inverted.  From the control surface positions, it looks like he tried to abort but had no upwards vector and pulled the stick nearly full aft before he rolled to less than 90 deg bank, so the nose dropped fairly rapidly with a high sink rate.  Basically he aborted the inverted pass but did not have the necessary altitude to do so at that time, and hit the ground still attempting to roll back upright.  The elevator is pretty far up so his roll rate may have been reduced by pulling it into a stall during the attempted rollout.

There could have been a zillion other things going wrong that we can't see from the video.  It didn't look like he was using much rudder during either of the rolls, even though that could have helped with the roll rate or to keep the nose up, decreasing the sink rate.  He didn't pause inverted to push the nose up before the abort, which tells me that he felt ground collision or some other catastrophic event was imminent and worth the risk of the abort.  I don't think he ever arrested the sink rate caused by the initial roll to inverted so they were doomed the instant he decided to abort the inverted pass.

My best guess would be the engine sputtered a bit and he aborted prior to ensuring he was climbing away from the ground, resulting in too much altitude loss during the attempted rollout.  Pulling the stick too far back too soon may have aggravated the situation but they were already dead the instant he started the rollout before getting an upward vector away from the ground.
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Offline eagl

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Re: Bad Crash Dayton Airshow
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2013, 12:13:58 AM »
Nothing about that video looks like an inverted stall to me.  Not one thing.  The nose track, etc. all looks consistent with the stick coming aft too early as he attempts to roll back upright.

CNN had a slightly different video posted that very clearly showed the control surface positions.  The ailerons were positioned to roll out the aircraft and the elevator was deflected up far beyond neutral.

If it was a stall the nose likely would have hung up a bit instead of snapping down like that and we would have seen some yawing of the aircraft.  It was going too fast and not "mushing" enough for it to be a stall.  You can see her arm fly up as well, telling me that she was subjected to enough Gs to make her arm fly up.  She had much better control of her limbs prior to that, and the G forces during a stall would not have made her arm fly up like that.

In any case, it's a shame.  They had a great airshow act.  Tragedy all around.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 12:17:01 AM by eagl »
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Offline Sol75

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Re: Bad Crash Dayton Airshow
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2013, 07:12:02 AM »
All i have is a grainy 320p to go on, what looked like opposite aileron input could simply be a video artifact.  Thats why in the other thread i said i am hoping fr higher res video...  if the aileron is with the direction of roll, then i agree, not a stall.  Id also like to be able to discern the elevator positioning.  eagl, could you pm me a link to that better angle?  Im curious to check it out...   :salute sir.
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Offline stealth

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Re: Bad Crash Dayton Airshow
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2013, 08:44:17 AM »
At an air show in Ohio 2 people were killed at 12:45 p.m. at the Vectren Air Show near Dayton. The engine seemed to have stalled out and the aircraft while inverted crashed killing both people instantly. The pilot and the wing walker performing their stunt crashed into the ground in front of the people at the air show. I remember seeing this exact group before perform at an Air Show in my city awhile back, and it just shocks me to see this. I got inspired to be a pilot from air shows like these, and without them I wouldn't even be on a site like this. I guess the way I wanna look at it right now though is that they died doing what they loved best, being in the air.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/06/22/plane-with-wing-walker-crashes-at-ohio-air-show/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N4r78-Z4jM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKIpdrGpXlo
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 08:47:27 AM by stealth »
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Bad Crash Dayton Airshow
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2013, 09:05:23 AM »
yup, saw it already...not as obviously titled though.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,350305.0.html
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Offline Denholm

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Re: Bad Crash Dayton Airshow
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2013, 09:48:26 AM »
What a shame.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Bad Crash Dayton Airshow
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2013, 10:08:21 AM »
i saw the puff. it also appeared as if the aircraft never really stabilized inverted. it didn't look as if it got level. the nose looked high. it looked like the wing that she was on dropped as if in a stall, followed immediately by the nose pitching down suddenly. the videos i can find, i can't see any of the control positions......

 :pray
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: Bad Crash Dayton Airshow
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2013, 11:07:20 AM »
4th thread.


se
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.