Author Topic: Is the CT really, really gonna survive? (Read 5919 times)

Kratzer · « **Reply #15 on:** September 21, 2001, 12:27:00 AM »

We don't get the chance to fly too much, but when we do, we fly in the CT... Wednesday nights, hope to see some allies in there to shoot us down!!!

straffo · « **Reply #16 on:** September 21, 2001, 06:26:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by eddiek:
The last 4 times I have been over France, I have seen zilch, zero, nada LW planes.

In fact (looking throught the window) I see no LW plane currently

And btw Evreux the place were I live was a LW base ... like Beaumont le Roger

Vermillion · « **Reply #17 on:** September 21, 2001, 10:25:00 AM »

When I sit here and read this, I feel like I am sitting thru a re-run of a bad movie, or a serious case of dejavu.

When all the screams, yells, and mashing of teeth were going on, "WE WANT A HISTORIC ARENA!!!" (remember all the 100+ post threads?), several people including myself, tried to explain how it went in Warbirds Historical Arena. In other words, Lots of talk, but nobody shows up to play and the arena stays a wasteland to this day.

Even Pyro tried to rationally explain what he and the rest of HTC had learned with that first attempt. But he was shouted down with cries of "I'll be there!".... "I won't fly anything else!!".... "Of course everyone will want to fly there, its HISTORICALLY ACCURATE MATCHUPS !!!"

Two important items that you can never forget if you want a successful CT. 1.) Critical Mass. 2.) Most people don't give a rats bellybutton about historical accuracy as long as they have fun.

*shrugs*

to paraphrase a famous quote

Never forget history or you are doomed to repeat it.

Good Luck Guys! I hope you get things worked out to your satisfaction, and the CT becomes everything you had hoped for.

[ 09-21-2001: Message edited by: Vermillion ]

LePaul · « **Reply #18 on:** September 21, 2001, 10:29:00 AM »

Vermillion,

Very well stated, my thoughts exactly.

They got what they wanted, and abandoned it.

Saintaw · « **Reply #19 on:** September 21, 2001, 12:12:00 PM »

blahh blahh blahhh, old ladies if you ask me...

Pepe/Sancho/Frenchy 5754656543 / Saw 1

I love it

funkedup · « **Reply #20 on:** September 21, 2001, 12:19:00 PM »

Who got what they wanted LePaul? I don't recall anybody who asked for this exact arena setup.

I don't remember anybody asking for no strat, or broken radar, or a map with huge flying times, etc.

[ 09-21-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

hazed- · « **Reply #21 on:** September 21, 2001, 12:21:00 PM »

eddiek please leave me out of this crap.

I defend and i attack eddeik.are you trying to make out i was worried about fighting you?
whilst you flew to france i was talking about forming a squad for each CT map that was in that theatre.thats why i was sitting in the tower so long.To be honest i didnt read anything you said until ram replied to you.Youve got an inflated ego if you think people change what they do for fear of running into you.
You have made an assumption here that is quite simply wrong.I cant talk for the other 3 guys but i suspect they would say the same.
We were all talking on country channel and by the time we got everyone clued up on the target, a fuel factory which the others didnt know about in southern england I started to notice you piping up about where are the LW and the CT is dead and too boring for you or whatever you were saying.I simply wasnt taking notice then when i did i just tried to ignore it, its not what i spend time in CT for eddeik.
As to your point that this is where the hardcore flyers go to find a real fight and fly straight to it with or without advantage.Yes maybe now and again but for some its the place to take your time and fly in formation and use wingman tactics or squad tactics etc.This theatre is for those that want historical matchups and for myself more missions with groups/squads flown how they did back then.That just happens to attract some good players and many newbies i might add(when they see it filling up

)
I cant be bothered to go on eddiek but take it from me you have got the wrong idea about what happened and this is getting on my nerves having to explain it on the BB.
Ive taken off to fight a 20k fighter over my bases many times eddiek,it just so happened i wasnt aware of what you was doing nor did i care after you start accusing me of planning away waiting for your fuel to run out! its laughable.
Next time ill stop what im doing when you arrive and ill fly directly for you ok. i'll forget the fact that i might be having fun doing some bombing missions and I'll do what YOU want me to do.after all who am i to say no to you eh?
like i said, you've got the wrong end of the stick.

[ 09-21-2001: Message edited by: hazed- ]

snafu · « **Reply #22 on:** September 21, 2001, 01:02:00 PM »

Hi All,
I think Verm quoted it best.....

Quote

Originally posted by Vermillion:
"WE WANT A HISTORIC ARENA!!!" (remember all the 100+ post threads

What we got was not a "Historical Arena". What we got was a "Combat Arena" the two are nothing like each other. I spent most of my time in the CT because I like the historical aircraft match ups, What I do not like is zero Strat, Hopefully this will be at least partially rectified in 1.08 although I have no idea exactly how. The excellent "Fluid Front" idea certainly won't come with the next release I'm sure.
I think the main reason for lack of participation is the lack of pilot ranking. Despite most people insisting they don't give a Sh*t about the score I think they do,

I think there are a lot of players who need to be at the top of their game and spending time in the CT gives them no benefit's at all. The supposedly long flying times are not an issue IMO. The current ETO map has very short flying times but still they don't come. The lack of Strat in effect means no reward for the bomber pilots and the GV & goon drivers don't even bother having a look. I get very little time to fly at the moment (How many times have we heard that) but I will continue to fly in the CT in the hope that it will turn the corner and become the "Historical Arena" we all asked for, but with Terrains which are basically flawed (Being shot down by friendly ack, Unreliable Radar, incorrect aircraft enabled etc), it has become the "Bastard child".

Historically War is all about Strat and terrain capture, this has none.

I'm still on the original band wagon of "WE WANT A HISTORIC ARENA!!!" co's this ain't it.

(Sorry for the comments about the terrain short comings, - No offence intended, I do know how hard these things are to create, I've tried on & off since the editor came out and I still ain't got one you can actually fly in).

TTFN
snafu

PeterCrump · « **Reply #23 on:** September 23, 2001, 11:06:00 AM »

Yep that is what I believe is missing too. Without a way to take territory CT is just a historically more correct dueling arena.
I like the suggestion of simulation a fluid front. This would give vehicle guys and ground pounders a variety of targets. Just a suggestion but I love the paratrooper idea too. Fighter Ace has a great "territorial combat" concept. Players damage enemy scenes enough to get a trigger and tanks (friendly and enemy) are spawned and take the scene. Paratroopers could be used just like they are now to hold a scene but would have to be defended against enemy armour/counterattack. The field would be a "pocket" and the front would have to link up with it or more goons flown in to "resupply" the surrounded troops. Landing craft or Troop Ships could be used to deliver the intitial armour/infantry across the channel and then the AI takes over running the ground forces/reinforcements.
The Invasion could even happen according to the Game timeline controlled by the AI but influenced by the players. If the players don't get one going first. The possibilities are endless.

I subscribed to AH specifically because of the New Combat Arena. It was a blast when populated. I will hold on for awhile and see were it goes. I started playing Fighter Ace again and FA3 is in Beta. Sure looks good at least the Eye Candy. I like flying for a country not a chess piece and Have become a dedicated LW pilot in FA. The FA LW flight models I feel are better. Pretty much everything I've read LW pilots did that worked in reality works in FA. I'm mostly Allied fodder in AH. I will not pay for something I don't use.
Flying in the main arena is a circus. Might have been fun when I was 12 but constanly fighting spits, NiKi's and other late war Uberplanes for a chess piece isn't my cup of tea. I want a sim not AirQuake. Yes I do think at this time FA is a better overall sim of the Airwar enviroment. It just doesn't have the eye candy of AH.

daddog · « **Reply #24 on:** September 23, 2001, 11:35:00 AM »

verm

Quote

In other words, Lots of talk, but nobody shows up to play and the arena stays a wasteland to this day.

bd5

Quote

Very well stated, my thoughts exactly.
They got what they wanted, and abandoned it.

Part of the problem is the "them and us" attitude or the "I told you so" attitude. Constructive criticism is welcome. Pointing fingers is not.

I for one have flown in there almost exclusively since it came out. Though his very weekend I did fly in the MA because I wanted to be with some squadies and had a blast in the MA as I do in the CT. Don't lump "us" all together.

Toad · « **Reply #25 on:** September 23, 2001, 12:24:00 PM »

Unfortunately, the door swings quite easily both ways.

How often do you hear the MA described with terms like "dweeb, dweebery, quake, quakers, HO dweebs.. etc."?

Which group voluntarily (and routinely) isolates itself while depicting those who don't share similar goals as a lesser order of players?

That's the trouble with slinging mud; generally all participants get some on themselves.

daddog · « **Reply #26 on:** September 23, 2001, 03:10:00 PM »

Quite often, but not by this player.

eddiek · « **Reply #27 on:** September 23, 2001, 04:24:00 PM »

Hazed, check yer messages.

Toad · « **Reply #28 on:** September 23, 2001, 06:34:00 PM »

Daddog, I didn't say you did.

But why take Verm and BD5 to task when they've merely done the same thing that the other side has done, albeit in a much, much more polite manner?

Evenhandedness would require taking those who mock the MA players to task as well, would it not?

funkedup · « **Reply #29 on:** September 23, 2001, 06:59:00 PM »

Toad, the problem is people who turn it into "sides". Daddog was probably commenting on BD5 and Vermillion's posts because they were doing exactly that. No real constructive purpose, just negativity, directed apparently at anybody who desires a more historical setup than the MA.

[ 09-23-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]