P-51B With Canopy Frames - P-51C With Malcolm Hood

[Krusty]

Sometimes I think folks forget there's a search function on these forums....

The malcolm hood was not a field modification. It was NAA engineers that designed it. It wasn't just a spitfire canopy bolted on. It was a custom built part that NAA issued to replace canopies at the depot level. It actually took a lot of effort to install.

From: http://www.mustangsmustangs.us/thehangar/index.php?PHPSESSID=sfvdf5rtbq58jkso2shkdfcq30&topic=846.msg3649#msg3649

The history of the Malcolm hood on the P-51 is full of misconceptions.  First, it is not an adaption of a (much smaller) Spitfire hood. They are totally different airplanes, with different dimensions and cross sections. The blown hood was merely inspired by that produced for the Spitfire. RAF test records indicate that the engineering work for the blown Mustang hood was done in the UK by North American Aviation engineers (i.e., it was an NAA engineered design, not a British one, thus factory approved and "official" as opposed to some cobbled up field mod.)  Once a prototype was tested (on a Mustang I), production was turned over to Malcolm Ltd. to refine it for production, and produce the kits. The engineering required a lot of internal airframe modifications, and the stresses and aerodynamics were all considered. The Malcolm hood kit took about 135 manhours to install. It wasn't simply an unbolt the old one and bolt on the new one affair. Kits were issued at both depot and squadron levels.  New canopy side rails had to built up, the runners for the canopy installed, the internal structure for supporting the hood rails had to be added, the hand cranking mechanism had to be installed and a new jettison mechanism fitted.

EDIT: Though I would like an option to toggle between the birdcage when I feel like it. I grew fond of it, and historically I'd like to be able to choose it when it was more appropriate.

[Vraciu]

Field mod isn't really accurate in this case as it was really a Depot mod.  It was limited to the ETO however with only a couple of examples on RAF 51s that made it to the MTO.

Thats why it looks so wrong on the PTO and MTO birds.  They didn't get the Malcom.

Keep in mind though that HTC responded to the visibility issue and in some ways it made the 51B more viable for folks who didn't fly it with the 'coffin hood'.

Screenshot from an AH film of my oldest son and I in October 2003 doing our Gentile and Godfrey impression in the original 51.  I'd like the option of both if for no other reason than the skins.  Flying Gentile's Mustang with a Malcom just kills the feel

Very cool.

I just had my skin of Godfrey's VF-P released in game so now ppl can fly as Batman and Robin...

[save]

The Malcolm hood also came with a severe disadvantage, they could not catch a Bf109g6 to terminal speed, there are quite a few pilot's testimonials about they had to break off pursuit because of severe buffeting, something earlier hood planes did not experience.

[oboe]

The Malcolm hood also came with a severe disadvantage, they could not catch a Bf109g6 to terminal speed, there are quite a few pilot's testimonials about they had to break off pursuit because of severe buffeting, something earlier hood planes did not experience.

If that could be modelled it'd make the trade-off between visibility and max speed very interesting...

[Guppy35]

The Malcolm hood also came with a severe disadvantage, they could not catch a Bf109g6 to terminal speed, there are quite a few pilot's testimonials about they had to break off pursuit because of severe buffeting, something earlier hood planes did not experience.

Interesting, as there are also comments about how the airflow around it was smoother and it gave them a boost in speed.  Funny how that works

[Chalenge]

Yeah, not buying either one really.

[Devil 505]

The buffeting issues at least seems plausible.

[save]

Robert C.Curtis, American P-51 pilot:
"My flight chased 12 109s south of Vienna. They climbed and we followed, unable to close on them. At 38,000 feet I fired a long burst at one of them from at least a 1000 yards, and saw some strikes. It rolled over and dived and I followed but soon reached compressibility with severe buffeting of the tail and loss of elevator control. I slowed my plane and regained control, but the 109 got away.
On two other occasions ME 109s got away from me because the P 51d could not stay with them in a high-speed dive. At 525-550 mph the plane would start to porpoise uncontrollably and had to be slowed to regain control. The P 51 was redlined at 505 mph, meaning that this speed should not be exceeded. But when chasing 109s or 190s in a dive from 25-26,000 it often was exceeded, if you wanted to keep up with those enemy planes. The P 51b, and c, could stay with those planes in a dive. The P 51d had a thicker wing and a bubble canopy which changed the airflow and brought on compressibility at lower speeds."

Thomas L. Hayes, Jr., American P-51 ace, 357th Fighter Group, 8 1/2 victories:
"Thomas L. Hayes, Jr. recalled diving after a fleeing Me-109G until both aircraft neared the sound barrier and their controls locked. Both pilots took measures to slow down, but to Hayes' astonishment, the Me-109 was the first to pull out of its dive. As he belatedly regained control of his Mustang, Hayes was grateful that the German pilot chose to quit while he was ahead and fly home instead of taking advantage of Hayes' momentary helplessness. Hayes also stated that while he saw several Fw-190s stall and even crash during dogfights, he never saw an Me-109 go out of control."

[FLOOB]

yeah it's dubious. Obviously if the p51 is buffeting and the 109 is not buffeting the p51 is moving faster

[Chalenge]

Robert C.Curtis, American P-51 pilot:
"My flight chased 12 109s south of Vienna. They climbed and we followed, unable to close on them. At 38,000 feet I fired a long burst at one of them from at least a 1000 yards, and saw some strikes. It rolled over and dived and I followed but soon reached compressibility with severe buffeting of the tail and loss of elevator control. I slowed my plane and regained control, but the 109 got away.
On two other occasions ME 109s got away from me because the P 51d could not stay with them in a high-speed dive. At 525-550 mph the plane would start to porpoise uncontrollably and had to be slowed to regain control. The P 51 was redlined at 505 mph, meaning that this speed should not be exceeded. But when chasing 109s or 190s in a dive from 25-26,000 it often was exceeded, if you wanted to keep up with those enemy planes. The P 51b, and c, could stay with those planes in a dive. The P 51d had a thicker wing and a bubble canopy which changed the airflow and brought on compressibility at lower speeds."

Thomas L. Hayes, Jr., American P-51 ace, 357th Fighter Group, 8 1/2 victories:
"Thomas L. Hayes, Jr. recalled diving after a fleeing Me-109G until both aircraft neared the sound barrier and their controls locked. Both pilots took measures to slow down, but to Hayes' astonishment, the Me-109 was the first to pull out of its dive. As he belatedly regained control of his Mustang, Hayes was grateful that the German pilot chose to quit while he was ahead and fly home instead of taking advantage of Hayes' momentary helplessness. Hayes also stated that while he saw several Fw-190s stall and even crash during dogfights, he never saw an Me-109 go out of control."

First, even the B pony could not keep up with a 109"K" at 38,000 feet, but either the 'B' or the 'D' could catch the G6 (although not in climb). Neither Curtis or Hayes could know if they were fighting a 'G' or a 'K,' but aside from that it is anecdotal evidence and doesn't mean anything.

I am looking at the aircraft dimensions at the moment. There is no change from 'B' to 'D.' The only difference in the wing comes when the 'H' model is built. Even then the only changes are the sweepback at the leading edge, washout at the tip, and the mean aerodynamic chord. The flaps and ailerons of the 'H' were also of smaller area. The 'H' also had a larger span and area in the horizontal stabilizer, less elevator area, larger vertical tail area, and smaller rudder area. The tail surfaces of the 'D' were larger than the 'B' in all areas except the rudder.

I do see where Wikipedia has that wrong. Probably edited by a war thunder noob.

You can also find many accounts (anecdotal) of 109s compressing and hitting the terrain. Go figure.

[bustr]

Bird cage canopy's are a pita to see your 6 in some cases. But, beginning with the new Hurri family they are old school beautifully complicated visually. I hope eventually we get the choice for the two types. Now the D11 canopy forward view really needs to be cleaned up......