Battle Of Britain - August 1940: Final Score

[Viper61]

Dr. Bino <S> always great playing the BOB scenario's.

I flew ALLIED and we had more than our hands full.  I will tell you in most cases inter squad and squad to squad chatter was that we couldn't protect the bases at all.  And that all we could hope for was to even the AC lose to kill ratio's.  But as long as bombs hit targets we had no way to even the score.  So there was no way the ALLIES could have won.  So some adjustments in the scenario should be made.  There are some good ideas posted above and I have my own.

         No point value for the ALLIED planes - the AXIS can shot them down but they get no points

[Viper61]

Sorry about that cut myself off and auto posted before I finished from above:

       Double the AXIS bomber points from 11 to 22.
       Likewise reduce the point values of targets for the ALLIED base structures - make the AXIS have to hit more of them.
       I don't think air spawns would help - but you could move the AXIS bomber bases to the more forward airfields in France.  They can get 200 miles one way in 60 minutes.  Besides the AXIS bombers would probably be just fine by themselves without protection for a short distance.  Would make the AXIS CIC plan for Fighter Escort relays etc.
       Limit the AXIS fighter's to 50% fuel or a percentage that wouldn't allow them to fly all over England at will
       Deeper targets in England, make the AXIS fly in further - Make them hit the HQ buildings in the middle as an example
       
Again love the BOB setup's and wish we had more of them and didn't have to wait a year for them.  This is one of the few setups where the planes are pretty evenly matched, not exact, but pretty darn close.  But during this scenario we had AXIS bombers flying around over bases 3 and 4 times and dropping bombs and no way the ALLIES could get to them given the fact that the plane setup was even and the fighter to fighter numbers were about even as well (minus for poor squad showings) which no one can control.  Strike Mission planners should be scared to death and be looking over their shoulders every minute of the flight and not calculating how many times I can fly around and over the same target making sure I hit every significant target.

Just my 2 cents and trying to improve the gaming experience for both sides.  <S>

[Rodent57]

Viper61,

You know I luv ya Brother, but I must disagree Sir.

- Undefended, the Axis Buffs will rain from the skies.  They are slow, poorly armed for defense, and basically grapes!  (And there isn't much chance that you will see the numbers of Buffs in frames 2&3--but THAT would be a different issue for the community to deal with).

- "Air Spawns" is an interesting idea, in that they would allow for a second strike (essentially doubling the opportunities for the defenders to intercept, engage, and attempt to destroy the Attacking Buffs)...and would enhance the portion of the event that I think MOST players relish (The fight) by doubling the opportunities.  Further it would compound the escorts' planning/execution problem -- more fun all the way around.  And a more fun Calculus problem too!

...

I openly admit that I don't bother to assess numbers per side, nor Ratios in FSO (except when I am supporting the CiC's plan development)  ... the CM's do that as part of their assessing of the event.  (I focus on the weekly tactical problem). 

- And as many have pointed out, the designers can not accurately predict participation in a given event, so they can only do their level best to have the starting assumptions work out as planned... from there it is up to us (ALL of US) to keep our part of the contract and SHOW UP!  (Yup, even if your squad draw a "POS ride" this week).


I will tell you that when we were the Buffs (Frame 1), we had LOTS of defenders attempt to kill us from shortly after we went feet dry, until we were roughly half way across the channel. 
  - Our Air Cover did the job that they were assigned to do (They attacked and removed any Allied Fighters that were direct threats to the Buffs ... otherwise they stuck with us and flowed through the threat array -- its pretty basic stuff, but not often adhered to in my observations).   
  - It may not get you Squad name in lights to chase down and kill a couple of the other side's fighters, but the guys driving the Buffs know who is worth having as their cover and who won't be there when they need them. 
  - It also establishes a level of trust and confidence between Squads that might otherwise never work together.

Ditto Frames 2 & 3 when we were the Buff's escorts/Defenders.  Rode with them from the point we believed they might be in danger until it was time to split up and establish our defensive schema -- "OPSEC" {"Operation Security" for those not familiar} demands that I not explain how that worked :-)   

Bottom line:  I'm not convinced that the results were purely a reflection of an imbalance in numbers, nor a scoring inequity.   I think it went deeper this time.

I saw defensive schemes that made absolutely no sense to me (But, I also didn't have benefit of seeing the greater plan, nor did I assess numbers of participants).  NOT The defensive arrays that the Allied CiC's put out there ... those seemed just about perfect from where I sat, but rather how the Defenders chose to prosecute the Buffs.

For the most part the Defenders that I saw made an initial move on the Buffs, then switched to Fighter-v-Fighter mode (Again, I only saw things from my myopic position). 

The setup pretty much demanded that the defenders focus on killing the Buffs before they got to their bomb fall lines ... I didn't see a single encounter in which the buffs were not at least initially engaged prior to bomb fall, but Most didn't press their attacks once the 109s were within visual ID range (Not threat range).  Instead most either tried to tie up with the Escorts ... Who, for the most part refused the offer of a duel (or chase them downhill) and stayed high...completely negating the Defender's desire to drag the escorts down and away from the Buffs.

I believe the critical Defensive mistake was in NOT having waves attacking the BUFFs in order to strip off the escorts.  (Y'all don't get up in arms, I'm not identifying any specific squad, just observing from a Buff's or Escort's perspective). 

 
...

Okay, now that we've seen the month through Rodent's eyes, I accede this point (Perhaps the ratios need to be skewed a bit more in favor of the Defenders (Allies) who had only to:
Scramble, Climb and Engage as quickly and ruthlessly as possible).

Diatribe complete.

 


This just occurred to me:  We have some folks who are students of the Air War in WWII.   I would absolutely love it if they were able to write up short vignettes on how the actual battles took place (Particularly the schemes used by both sides).  I suspect if folks had that info available, and understood the thought processes that went on back then, we might see different plans/execution.   
  - For example: "Here is how the RAF chose to engage on day 1-3 of BoB" -- and why, and results ... Then again, this is a hobby and not a scholastic enterprise :-)


Rebuttals?
 
Rodent57


PS Viper61, You owe me a beer!      {I'm not really sure why, but I like the sound of it}   :-) 



 

[captain1ma]

in frame 3, JG54 purposely baited the allied fighters, knowing they would come after us.

[Devil 505]

Sorry about that cut myself off and auto posted before I finished from above:

       Double the AXIS bomber points from 11 to 22.
       Likewise reduce the point values of targets for the ALLIED base structures - make the AXIS have to hit more of them.
       I don't think air spawns would help - but you could move the AXIS bomber bases to the more forward airfields in France.  They can get 200 miles one way in 60 minutes.  Besides the AXIS bombers would probably be just fine by themselves without protection for a short distance.  Would make the AXIS CIC plan for Fighter Escort relays etc.
       Limit the AXIS fighter's to 50% fuel or a percentage that wouldn't allow them to fly all over England at will
       Deeper targets in England, make the AXIS fly in further - Make them hit the HQ buildings in the middle as an example

I think that forward bombers bases or air spawns would help immensely in ensuring quicker action/ second attack sorties. An adjustment to the scoring is definitely in order, although your recommended changes are too extreme. Where you're way off, is changing the fuel percentage, burn rate, or distance to target: the range for the 109's was stretched to the limit every frame. Each planned strike saw KN's 109's touching down with under 10% fuel remaining, with KN unable to stay in fights as long as we wanted, to ensure enough fuel to make it to the nearest field to rearm.

[Dantoo]

I can't speak for any others but I am having a laugh at the posters who thought that the Allied side used poor tactics.  There were so many targets, so many attackers and so few defenders who were effectively diminished further with such limited firepower.  (None of which detracted from the fun on the Allied side but must have been frustrating for the Axis).

Over the three weeks of the event, my squad had to help defend targets with a defensive combined total (from all squads assigned thereto) of about 11 planes average.  Usually we were hit with 2 - 3 waves of attackers.  Only once were the attackers completely unescorted.  We fought all types: 109s, 110s, Ju87s, Ju88s and He111s, perhaps in a single frame.

The AH .303 model firepower means basically that to get a kill you have to get right in close and then stay there for a prolonged period to put down an opponent.  If the other guy is turning and twisting or shooting back it becomes very difficult to land any kind of a blow.  The firepower from the bombing twins is enough that you must take some damage to get a kill.  It might take a third of your ammunition to take down a single drone.  All the while you are being chopped up.  Throw in a 109 sniping at you with 20mm then it requires a defensive response to the immense and immediate threat.

Each week, at the end of the first hour, I'd take stock of what was going on and what we could do during the remainder of the frame.  Normally, there were about 20 Allied planes still flying and about 80 Axis.  Fifteen minutes later there was often about 10 Allied and 60 Axis.  Should we have just landed and banked the "landing bonus"?

The bombers weren't too fast to catch.  The defenders did not lack in determination or cunning plans - just numbers and firepower.  This is a normal and expected situation in BoB setups.

If you want to adjust the scoring for some reason, you might as well ditch the landing bonus for Allied as most that earn it will be forced down due to pilot wounds and engine hits. AH Spit 1s and Hurri 1s are never going to be able to shoot down vast numbers of twin engine bombers unless they outnumber them locally by a high margin.  FSO rules do not allow for the concentration of forces needed to effect such an outcome.
It is what it is.  I have flown on both sides of BoB forever and it usually is bunches of fun whichever side.  It was fun this time too.

rgds

[MachNix]

I thought the event was enjoyable.  The one thing I would like to see is for the bases being attacked to be farther apart.  As a defender, we had to stick close to the field being defended so as not to gang up and engage an Axis attack group going to a different target.  The dar-bars may tell you the enemy is in a sector but does not provide any information on types, altitudes, or heading.  By having the attack fields spread out, the defenders could a least say that dar-bar is ours.

On scoring, with a 50/50 ratio of defenders to escorts, it does not leave any defenders to attack bombers.  And despite what some people think, a bomber is not defenseless -- except maybe a Ju87 -- and I did see some defenders fall to bomber guns.  I don't know if the ratio should be changed since the Allies are suppose to be outnumbered, but I would change the value of the bombers, and you could use these event as a bench mark.  Let's look at the bombing as an example.

Total BDA points for all three frames were 3,291 points.  It cost the Axis 122 bombers of all types to get those points.  3,291 points divided by 122 bombers gives about 27 BDA points earned for each bomber lost.  If each bomber's value was 27 points, the Allies would have won the BOMBING CAMPAIN in Frame 1 by 6 points, Frame 2 by 47 points, and lost Frame 3 by 50 points.  There is a 3 point spread between all three frames because I rounded up to 27 points, otherwise the spread would be zero since I'm using the event as the standard.

Appling the same method to the fighters, the Axis fighters' values would be doubled to 4 points for 109s and 6 points for the 110s.  The Hurricanes and Spits would remain at 2 points each.

The landing bonuses would also need a similar treatment but it is not easy to compile those numbers so I don't have the details but maybe awarding the bonus to any sorties that did not end in death or capture would even things out.

Making those scoring changes and ignoring the landing bonus, by my calculations, the scores for the event come out to 3,738 points for the Allies and 3,761 points for the Axis -- a spread of 23 points in the Axis' favor.  Remember we are not scoring this event but using it as a bench mark to score any future BoB event.  So if the event is run again with the same side split and all things being the same, the Allies either have to shoot down one more bomber or limit the Axis to one less hanger destroyed to win the event.

Just some food for thought.